seems to me they're coming down rather quickly
 

I guess they are getting old...almost 2 years, and on the market, don't know what's going on in the states with these, just thought i'd share it for general info



http://www.autoscout24.de/Details.as...249106&asrc=st

cars tend to hold there value much better over here than Europe. Having said that good GTS and early 991 are occupying same price area.

New cars in Germany cost much more than in the US. They charge more for the cars and the cars come with fewer options, generally. In addition, prices include VAT whereas in the US prices do not include sales tax. Finally, people there often buy cars that are one or two years old as the price drops significantly for all brand over that period. It is also less risky buying a used car there as people generally take better car of their cars. Ever compare the condition of a rental car in Germany with one in the US?..... big difference.

I think cars here tend to hold there value better is because they are more necessary here. US does not have the comprehensive public transport system that Europe has. Also people start driving from 16 onwards placing a greater demand on cars than Europe. My daily driver would have most likely been scraped in UK and I certainly wouldn't have paid more than 500 pounds for it. Here it cost me 2000 USD and needed almost immediately another 1000 usd spent on it. Every panel is dented it has a massive dent in the roof where something fell of the roof apparently and hit it. The interior is less than poor. I was really shocked how little I was getting in money terms compared to what I was seeing in UK and Switzerland when I lived there.


Its weird because as you say cars here are much cheaper when they are new here. I could go and lease a new camry for example for only 89 usd a month. An M3 was a 1 to 1 dollars to pound conversion so cost 60k USD or 60k GBP. The nice side of the cars holding there value better and being cheaper is once you have paid your car off it does make it easier to upgrade to a new one later.

Yeah, and if you rent a car in Germany, it had better be pristine when you return it or you get whacked big bucks. Inspections at US PCA events are not as thorough. Sometimes I think the German rental companies make all their money on penalties for minor variances against the terms. There's a reason German rental cars remain in better shape.

On the other hand, it's nice to know you're getting a clean, well-maintained vehicle that does not smell -- generally a very pleasant experience.

I would not mind at all if US car rental companies became as strict. And I would not mind at all if the rules-of-the-road discipline was also as strict. Coming back to the US and driving on a busy interstate near a big city is unbelievably chaotic and dangerous by comparison.

This will vary state by state. In California, we pay full sales tax on new and used car purchases. In San Diego, this is 7.75%, which probably still sounds like a deal to our German friends.

Kit
San Diego, CA

But do the prices include the sales tax? That is the point. And yes VAT is much higher.

In fact Americans, despite their complaints, pay lower taxes overall than just about every other wealthy nation.

Local taxes/Housing taxes not sure exactly what they are called here are fairly steep. Certainly a lot more than they were in Switzerland or the UK. Also unlike UK you may have to pay or certainly contribute toward health care which is included in your income tax. I suspect there isn't a huge difference between all countries when all the little bits and pieces are added up.

Having said that what ever country I have lived in people always complain about tax. I thought that was part of being human :)

We pay tax on everything we buy in the US be it cars, food, clothes, shoes,books, etc...we also pay tax on our electric bill, phone bill, cell phone bill, natural gas, water bill, sewer bill, etc... SS tax, Medicare tax, state income tax, county tax. Indiana charges an excise tax generally equal to 1% of a cars value in addition to license plate fees every year for the first ten yeas of a cars life. We pay taxes on burial expenses, including the headstone. Everything is taxed in America cradle to grave. Not sure if that's the same in other countries.

Really? As a small business owner, with federal and state and employer taxes I pay just over 50% on my earnings. And guess what Fahrer - that don't come with health insurance. I pay another $15K USD per year in premiums for health insurance. And that only covers 80%.

Country with no taxes
 

North Korea claims that it is the only state in the world that does not levy taxes. Taxes were abolished beginning on April 1, 1974. Very big market for Porsches, I hear.

I just got a flier emailed from a local dealer and they were offering significant discounts on new 991 cars.

yes, mehrwertsteuer, mwst, sales tax or whatever they call it, cause it seems to get tacked on to many more things than just initially intended, at least I think, is right now at 19%...! and on and on, but my intent with this thread was not to bring attention to taxes, but just show everyone that they(the 991's) are out there and, maybe that is the norm... like 40% depreciation in 2 years, I guess a big part of that is driving it off the lot...and that price does include the 19%, but there is no getting around it if you live here, unless...
anyway, I still prefer the 997

Apples and oranges. Are you talking about personal income or business profits?

It would be interesting to see what the discounts are. Normally 5-7% is given on any transaction unless sales are so bad they need to move them.
It seems that the only model that really moves is the SUV. The 991s are so expensive now and the Boxster/Cayman has been improved so much, my guess is that the 911 will become less relevant in the lineup as far a dealers are concerned.