apples and oranges

Where are the moderators on these subjects???just sayin once again....

The M4's design, much like the E92, will take some time to grow on most. But overall the car lives up to the M line. Though who say it does not are a bit too critical in my opinion. That said, there is nothing like a Porsche. Even cars than can best their times on the track.

Well since you say so I guess there's nothing more to discuss :rolleyes:

I'd take new M3 over M4. The M4 is a fairly big vehicle - reminds me of the previous generation 6 series.

For a brand new M4, there are a bunch of cars I'd considered before it:
New M3, C7, used 997.2, Cayman S, to name a few ;)

Seems like a legit place to post as it is talking about M4 in comparison to the c4s.
There is a new EVO comparison of the 996 GT3 .2 vs the Cayman GTS and around the track there times are identical. New cars are just more sophisticated and the performance they offer is incredible. I am not surprised to hear new M4 is better than an 09 997 in many ways after all the M3 from 2009 period was very close if not also better in some ways as well.


The 991 C2s has already taken quite a hit in price have you test driven a 2012 or 2013 just to see if you aren't better going this route? Of course if you regularly take more than two people in the car then M4 is hands down the best way to go.

The M4 fits quite nicely in a niche that is a medium from previous M3's, and people who complained about the bulk of the M6.

I echo those who state the 'M' brand has been watered down a bit... But then should we applaud BMW for stepping up their non-M's (i.e. 335 with the TT6cyl 3.0, etc...)?

I love the new M4 (and weirdly, the new 6-series). I won't be getting one, though... Performance is not anywhere near my expectations for a daily driver. But for someone looking for a fun, utilitarian, and slightly more comfortable/smooth than other more focused sports cars, this fits the bill very well. All of this said, I have ZERO idea on what the costs are (as I have never contemplated purchasing one).

I've driven the newer M cars with the DCT, and it finally matches the performance of the PDK (drivability, livability, etc.). Those here that are bashing poor BMW (for numerous various reasons) are pretty-much on the mark, unfortunately. I think BMW is sacrificing their history of "driver's cars" for the almighty volume leadership trophy. And it's a shame, because I've owned a lot of BMWs, and there's nothing in my garage right now, except for SWMBO's car. And she's not as picky as I am.

For those not in the know, "Beemer Guy" refers to my BMW motorcycles of past.

Anyway... I too wonder why the OP would buy the M4 if he's just planning to dump it in a year for the 991. Why not skip the pain and just buy a 991? Especially since I would not want to be a guinea pig for BMW, buying their first year car. BTDT, not a fun experience. Buy the 991, enjoy that for a few years, and then go buy an M4 after they've gotten most of the bugs out of it.


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Ah, from my name you can only guess. I've owned all the m3s except the e30. I liked the e92 the least. I had a 6 speed and the tranny was nothing like a porsche to say the least.

It is entirely reasonable to post the discussion here, these cars are cross shopped and often also owned by p car owners all the time.

I will definitely look at them. The biggest thing missing from the e92 was torque and the new one has plenty. Should make it a fun car to drive. Can't beat the utility of these cars. Compared to the 991S, the m4 was only 8 seconds slower around the Ring. But it was13 seconds faster than an e92.

I've owned a few M cars. I did take the the new m3/m4 out for a spin and no I was not blown away by it. I had my 997 with me and wow did I appreciate the drive home. The torque is definitely there (oodles more than the e9x's) but I did not like their new electric steering very much (part of the reason I went 997 over 991). I am not sure why they didn't keep the hydrolic steering like they did in the new m5. The interior is nice and the tech is definitely an upgrade but I actually miss the old lay out (with the hump and the navigation set in, where I could rest my phone hah). The new leather is nice and soft but I worry about it's longevity. It reminded me of the e46 leather which did not age all that well.

The car is an upgrade/improvement over the previous generation (though not necessarily in all aspects IMHO) and personally I did miss the feel and sound of the e9x.

I will not be buying a new m3/m4 but will definitely be interested to see what the Competition Package will bring to the car (with an almost guaranteed bump in HP I am not sure why a lot of enthusiasts didn't just wait).

991 S: 7:37.9
997 S: 7:50
M4: 7:52
E92 M3: 8:05

I count the 991S as 14 seconds quicker than the M4, which is quite a lot. You must have confused the 2010 997 Turbo S (7:44) and 991 S. BTW these cars come out a model year earlier in Germany than the US, so that may confuse the uninitiated. The poor E92 M3 was never impressive around the ring. Certainly no benchmark. Great motor, suck brakes and cornering. I had a Z4 M Coupe, and a E46 M3 (at the same time). After those 2, I was essentially done with BMW M. Bought a 997.1 S instead of the E92 M3 and never looked back.

Kind of tangential, but I can provide some insight on the prev gen 997.2 and E9x. I bought a 2008 M3 vert and traded it in for a 2011 C4S cabrio. IMO the porsche is better in every way (other than utility). Torque and power delivery are worlds better in the C4S.. no comparison. The ergonomics are also much better, so much so that I would never go back to BMW. Strong opinion and open to debate, but I can post this without hesitation. Pics of my M3 included
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...ba07e8905d.jpg


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...c5ddf6165e.jpg

I hear ya. I was actually still living in Germany when the E92 M3 came out. Test drove the car on the Autobahn and pushed it fairly hard (6 speed manual). Drove like a truck in all honesty. Car feels big when you drive it. Probably because it is. Again, the S65 motor is world class, but naturally aspirated BMW M power comes at the expense of lots of petrol. Typical BMW clutch delay valve too, which drove me nuts. Power with compromised agility is not what I enjoy. I'd rather have the opposite. The M4 seems good on paper, but it's just another M disappointment. The best M car never came to the States. The E46 M3 GTR.

Enjoy:

I had an '08 M3 as well and now drive an '09 4S and agree on all of your points.

When it comes down to it, the one thing that impressed me the most about the M4 was the torque. And perhaps this is the only thing the M4 has that is better than my 4S. I realize I'm comparing apples to oranges (NA vs turbo), but it is what it is. Is it enough to (still) make me want to trade the 4S for an M4 .... Probably not :-)