I agree that the new 3/4 Series interior has taken a huge step backwards since the E9x models. BMW needs to offer an interior upgrade as an option. Just does not fit a 65K+ car.

 

Wonderful and exciting video of Stuck at the 'Ring. I must say however that I owned a E46 M for years. With the revs down you could be run over by an Escalade en route to the mall. 911 was and still is a great relief.

 

For $75k you could pick up a lightly used 2013 M5. It's more car for the $ and better in pretty much every way.

I like the M4 styling though, but dislike that they have introduced fake engine noise.

 

Of course the M3 GTR had the S65 V8 stuffed into it. Unfortunately for me and you with US E46 M3s, we got the detuned versions. The German version had that beautiful large volume airbox, and headers. Like any race-bred NA engine, it's designed for strong mid range and top end, which means a shorter stroke and higher rpms. Opposite needed for a engine with high torque. But ultimately, the motor is just one component of what's needed to produce powerful acceleration. You also need the right gearing and a structure to put the power to the ground efficiently. My my opinion, BMW M cars are geared too tall, which takes away from the feel of torque which you and others seem to want.

That's another point when looking at posted BMW M times at the ring. The US version will always be slower.

 

Not so much a question of what I want, it's what works on the street. Race tuning and num. high gears not so much good in the real world. Whatever, that was a lifetime ago. Cheers

 

I think YOU should pick up this lightly used 2013 M3 and report back in 6 months .

 

I'm in the minority on wanting a car with gobs of torque (i.e. forced induction). BMW had it correct with their NA S motors, which they abandoned for economic reasons in this challenged global economy. The last thing I want is what F1 drivers are contending with right now, which is too much low end grunt which lessens drivability. I'm not too lazy to drive in the right gear for the power I want.

Ultimately I no longer trust what comes out of the M factory as their best effort. Especially US versions. Not to mention M cars don't hold their value, other than perhaps an E30 M3.

The cars most worth owning are the ones from a lifetime ago.

 

Perhaps but to me the Porsche most worth driving is the one you own. Last time I looked they were making a turbo. Check it out and see what you think.

 

To me, it's the driver's Porsche, until the Cayman GTS arrives anyway. But even then, I don't think anyone could tell the GTS from just an S, similarly equipped. For me, I think 350 hp would be perfect for this car. My guess is Porsche opted for the 3.4 liter motor for the 991 base to save from having to make a 3.4, 3.6, and 3.8. If Porsche kept the 3.6 for the 911 base, then they would not have had the need to de-tune the 981's 3.4 to keep it from upstaging the base Carrera (which it does anyway).

I bought a 135i when living in Germany as my daily driver. As much as people praised the motor, I hated it. Never driven a car which has such a diminishing power band. Loses 100 lb ft of torque in the last 2,000 rpms. That car is no fun to drive at high speed. Sold it 6 months after buying it. If Porsche builds a turbo with similar power characteristics, they'll ruin it. I'm sure the turbo will destroy the beautiful music of the current flat 6s anyway. I'm content with what I have at the moment. The older I get, the more I want even older cars anyway. If I ever buy another 911, it will be a 993.

 

You do realize, of course, that the whole "fake engine noise" thing started with the M5, right?

... and I wonder if there is such a thing as a "lightly used" M5, unless it spent all of it's life waiting for a service appointment. Those things are usually driven pretty hard.

 

How does the handling prowess of the new M4 compare with the V8 M3, and 911?

 

Some of the popular car rags have been comparing just this. Suggest you start there.

 

As I re read this I think you are referencing new M4 with old M3 not 911. You may be right but this I think is better fodder for BM forum no?

 

Again, Nurburgring is the ultimate proving ground. Unfortunately times posted will be the German version as opposed to the US version (big issue for BMW over the years). The German M4 pumps out 437 hp versus the US version at 425, and the German M4 posted a 7:52. Not great for that power. Then again, the E92 M3 only posted a 8:05. Neither are anywhere close to a 991S (7:38). Oh, and both BMWs pump out more power than the Porsche. So the Bimmers lose time either in agility or braking, or both. Plus, both are heavy.

 

Are you sure there is a power difference and that is not the difference in units? The German ps standard is a slightly higher value than bhp. I think BMW stopped shipping different motors after the e36. (Of course we never saw the e46csl, but that's another matter). I think the torque of the m4 will make it a fun performer and people have suggested it pulls like an m6.

I would say that I just had a 991 base car and it pulled like a toad. If anyone compares a '10 turbo at 100k to a newer 991 and picks the 991, you don't know what you're missing. There is no comparison. Torque makes all the difference and the new m4 has plenty of it. I don't imagine it will really hold a candle to a turbo though, but it is a lot cheaper.