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I am looking forward to seeing how it runs. My main concern will be engine bay temperatures. Living in the Phoenix area I would still like to occasionally drive my car in the summer months. Do you have plans to instrument the engine bay to monitor those temps while running? I am more than willing to dial back boost for summer months but I am still concerned about the exhaust path routing and ambient temps.
I can see that with all the individual fabricated components that this is no easy undertaking for a production run. The initial jig set-up alone for the plumbing weldments is a significant task of it's own.
Impressive work so far.
We haven't installed any additional sensors other than allowing for a wideband O2 so we can monitor AFR on the road as well as the dyno.
We will be doing a fair bit of datalogging so we'll be able to monitor things like intake air temperature, which is a pretty good gauge of what's going on under the hood. One thing we have introduced, both due to proximity to the turbos but also as a heat exit is to vent the portion of the fender liner in front of the stanchion. We're also considering venting the rear portion out through the side strakes like on the DB11.
Everyone thinks in terms of WOT dyno runs, which do produce a lot of heat for certain, but some of the things we want to do are to go drive it and then let it sit there idling for 20 minutes and see what happens when there is no airflow. Real world stuff.
The ceramic and titanium wrap will do a pretty good job, as will the turbo blankets but some of this stuff we will just have to see how it pans out.
__________________ Stuart Dickinson Managing Director Velocity Automotive Performance Limited 206 Maple Avenue Oliver, BC Canada V2A 4W6 Office: (1)250-485-5126 www.velocityap.com
We haven't installed any additional sensors other than allowing for a wideband O2 so we can monitor AFR on the road as well as the dyno.
We will be doing a fair bit of datalogging so we'll be able to monitor things like intake air temperature, which is a pretty good gauge of what's going on under the hood. One thing we have introduced, both due to proximity to the turbos but also as a heat exit is to vent the portion of the fender liner in front of the stanchion. We're also considering venting the rear portion out through the side strakes like on the DB11.
Everyone thinks in terms of WOT dyno runs, which do produce a lot of heat for certain, but some of the things we want to do are to go drive it and then let it sit there idling for 20 minutes and see what happens when there is no airflow. Real world stuff.
The ceramic and titanium wrap will do a pretty good job, as will the turbo blankets but some of this stuff we will just have to see how it pans out.
Stuart,
You are thinking just as I am; real world usability of a twin turbo Vantage. Mine is not a daily driver but I also want to know it will not overheat if I get stuck in traffic in a 100 degree day with the A/C going.
Have you added fans into your setup? It the bay gets too hot and the only solution is the V12 hood or something like that, it will be a price killer. The NA V8V engine bay is already the hottest of any car I've ever owned.
Are the turbos water or oil cooled? I assume there are intercoolers as well? (edit: I saw in post 28 you mentioned an intercooler. Is that one for each TC?)
Have you added fans into your setup? It the bay gets too hot and the only solution is the V12 hood or something like that, it will be a price killer. The NA V8V engine bay is already the hottest of any car I've ever owned.
Are the turbos water or oil cooled? I assume there are intercoolers as well?
No fans. There's really not any more room to add that in, but as I said we have vented the fender liners. Our setup deletes the front 'snorkel' siamesed intake and airboxes, running a cone filter off the original MAF tube & location.
There is a 22x9x3.25" Intercooler mounted in front of the radiator, where the snorkel used to be. It is rated at 550WHP at 1.5psi of pressure drop across the core. We are currently running a 7psi wastegate, expect a 1psi drop across the core at around 430-440WHP, low 500's at the crank.
That is about the safe limit of the pistons, any more pressure, particularly if intake air temperatures aren't controlled with the intercooler and you risk cracking the ring lands. That's one of the reasons we opted for a larger core than we needed to support the boost levels.
The turbos are twin oil cooled Garrett GTX 2867R's.
__________________ Stuart Dickinson Managing Director Velocity Automotive Performance Limited 206 Maple Avenue Oliver, BC Canada V2A 4W6 Office: (1)250-485-5126 www.velocityap.com
No fans. There's really not any more room to add that in, but as I said we have vented the fender liners. Our setup deletes the front 'snorkel' siamesed intake and airboxes, running a cone filter off the original MAF tube & location.
There is a 22x9x3.25" Intercooler mounted in front of the radiator, where the snorkel used to be. It is rated at 550WHP at 1.5psi of pressure drop across the core. We are currently running a 7psi wastegate, expect a 1psi drop across the core at around 430-440WHP, low 500's at the crank.
That is about the safe limit of the pistons, any more pressure, particularly if intake air temperatures aren't controlled with the intercooler and you risk cracking the ring lands. That's one of the reasons we opted for a larger core than we needed to support the boost levels.
The turbos are twin oil cooled Garrett GTX 2867R's.
However I'm wondering about the sense of a TT Vantage V8 setup with a power goal below the already existing GMR 600 supercharger.
With that power goal, you have benfits of a S/C setup.
- Supercharger does not have a turbo lag
- Supercharger keep the linear power curve of an N/A engine with power delivery in high revs.
- Setup (in GMR case) seems to be plug and play of the intake. No mayor engine bay modifications required.
- good for up to 600Hp (crank) reliable out of a 4.3l (over 100k mile GMR Vantages on the street)
Besides, that ship has left. They could get 600hp out of this setup if they wnated. This is just a 120hp jumpt with two units in play. The problem I assume is that this is already a fairly high compression engine and so they are playing it as safe as possible with boost. Adding FI to a NA designed engine is always risky.
It's hard for me to read those price for some reason, so tell me if this is a mistake. $28k for the supercharger set up? Is that right?
bigger intake and exhaust valves with stronger springs fully ported heads custom stronger rods thicker custom sleeves custom CP pistons
You need all this in addition plus a lot more if you want reliable power above 600 in the Vantage
Yeah but the $28k for the supercharger was with stock internals, right? The engine upgrades are for withstanding up to 1,000 hp. At least that is what I thought I read in the tiny print.
Would love to see a quality and reasonably priced positive displacement supercharger for the V8 Vantage. With all the forged components, it seems like this engine would be a good candidate. Harrop makes one of the cleanest aftermarket kits I've seen for the e9x v8 m3. Even utilizes the factory airbox. Keep in mind that the m3 has a 12 CR compared to the Vantage's 11.3 (10.5 for the 4.3). Other versions of the AJ-V8 work quite well under forced induction.
My opinion, which is largely based on having seen multiple internal engine part failures on forced induction Vantages that I have not been involved with (I'm not referring to anything/anyone in particular some of these have never seen the light of day), is that the safe limit for these engines on forced induction is around 6PSI boost, which should get you over the 500BHP mark but not much further. IAT management is critical, for one. The GMR kit I think looks very good. I learned much about it going back to 2009 when they were first developing it, and they were definitely not cutting corners. 600BHP is more than I would feel comfortable with on stock internals, but then they appear to have a few cars out there with some pretty high mileages.
We're also getting into a very grey area in terms of what constitutes 'safe'. 3PSI and another 60BHP is less 'safe' than stock. So it isn't really a binary ok/not ok situation. The turbos we selected for our kit are capable of supporting 480BHP per turbo, according to Garrett. The core we have fitted is rated at 550WHP, say 700BHP at the crank. We have enough injector to get there with the upgraded ones we are using. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to just turn the boost up and let 'er rip.
However, 1000HP on stock internals? Hang on while I get my phone out.
__________________ Stuart Dickinson Managing Director Velocity Automotive Performance Limited 206 Maple Avenue Oliver, BC Canada V2A 4W6 Office: (1)250-485-5126 www.velocityap.com
03-14-2017, 12:32 PM
