no they have a 20k reserve and cnat assure whats intact. im scrapping it for parts and have 40k of buyers lined up for just a few parts. Goal is to selll the engine, transmission, exhause, wheels and then take the chasis and the body, put it on one of my lifts and sore it until i find some inspiration about what to do with the one that broke my heart.

autopsy starts 9am monday so say a little prayer wishing it well to to the other side and enjoying its time with the motor gods.

 

Its on its way to the dealership in northern OH. Other than the bad noise its making after two weeks of listening, using a scope camera, and actively running live time diagnostics - on monday i told him that this is either something minor or something major has already happened. Either way we cant find parts anywhere and i found 1 clean 4.7 for sale anywhere online and a guy in Sweeden wanted 90k for it. I figure if its going to need a rebuilt anyway its going to cost the same whether we do a little more harm or maybe we find out whats wrong and its a cheap fix. We found nothing. After the first inspection where trace amount of metal was in the oil after a few more times starting it and checking again we found none. no misfires, no camshaft angle or timing errors, all specs across fuel, air and spark exactly as they should. I should have recorded it but it sounds like a ship running into the coast. Loud, constant grinding metal - each time we were waiting for the engine to shoot something through the block or the top end explode and it started fine, idled fine, did not lose fluids and kept steady temp. At this point it could be something as random as the exhaust bracket coming loose and the vibration against the exhaust is causing this noise- doubtful but likely as anything else
Either way by now we know its something really bad or not and damage is done or it isnt. so i rolled the dice and said run it, lets see what breaks or find out whats wrong. Any repair is just a minor range of expensive to very expensive. ive accepted that and just want my car back. No parts to be found, not a single motor for sale in the country below 30k so what they hell. If minor we fix if blow we send to aston to rebuild or it will be going to AZ for two months to have a racing N4000 motor with about 575 HP and modify the suspension and aero pack. If im going deep into my pockets for this car does a 50k bill really hurt any more or less than a 40k? at least this way i feel like i spent money on something i didnt already have. still dont know if i want to go that route though.
I try to avoid dealers but at this point they are the best equipped to solve this so it was put in a truck and sent off and i should know by end of week what is what. From there i have these options and would like feedback on what you would do:
1) its a cheap fix and clearly i do that and get my car back

- Its going to take a full rebuild and throw in the clutch and rough estimates are 35-40. That said they are offering to include an amazing warranty, 3 years not cost for anything. Minus tires and brakes but any service any part fee even injectors or plugs. No deductible unlimited mileage. That seems almost worth 30k in of itself. I could keep it and drive the hell out of it or i could sell it and id like to think that peace of mind would be worth a lot to a buyer worried about upkeep of a 60k 10 year old super car.

- I see what they will offer me on trade and choose not to fix it. Anyone have a clue what i might expect? Their cost to fix and mine is very different. if they wrap the same warranty into it and sell on their lot i think they are getting around 80k + for it? right now its worthless so is expecting something around 30 reasonable or should i be prepared to see something more like 15k. i could make the argument and understand why they would offer either.

- Send off with a check for 45k and 8 weeks later it comes back a monster of an aston. It is a sport shift roadster. Ive tuned and added quicksilver exhausts to other cars and love them but this is open air, something i dont drive too hard as i like the refined nature and soft suspension. its my grown up sports car and im sure it would be awesome but i have other cars that are still faster and more agile so it would suck to receive it and be louder and more aggressive than i want. then im over 100k into this car and dont like it and going into winter no one will ever think of buying it. This would be me pushing all in saying this car is going to be one i keep forever and live with the results and just find what situation i like using it.

so 35-40k to get my car back, spend probably 175k more and buy a DBS or one of the new models, or spend 10k more than the rebuild and really build it. The first makes the most sense but for whatever reason is the most painful. you dont want to pay that kind of money just to get back what you had. you should get something better and its hard to pull the trigger on getting back to where i was 3 weeks ago

Ive spent way too much on cars the past 3 years and my wife might kill me if i fly up there and drive home spending 3x what i did on this car. I have a lot of insurance and can be quite annoying as many of you have discovered so she already has ample incentive. Risky move.

I bought this car thinking that i wanted a sports car that was fast and exotic but not too fast and not too flashy, I like it exotic in a simple pure kinda way and it will get moving pretty well once at speed but your not winning drag races nor do you even want to get in one. its fun driving 20 in an aston martin roadster, its only fun driving my gt2 at 120. Should i make the car somthing its not?

35, 45 or 175 and fingers crossed for not much. if you were me where would you start thinking about directing things should i have to? no good choices just degrees of bad and i can live with that now



Interested to hear what you would do.

*************** below are some open comments about a few interactions leading up to this post. if interested in cars only read no further. if bored and killing time clearly like myself enjoy but im not looking for drama or to take over the list serve so please just take my apologies and my show of appreciation as being genuine, im a pretty caring guy and i dont like it when i think ive acted in a way, intentional or not, that upset someone. I dont know how things devoleved so fast but lets say we chalk it up to that one just going sideways reallly fast and unexpected. Peace offering as id like to continue to be a welcome member. Ill provide all documentation of what the dealer says and provides so if nothing else i can close the case on the technical aspects of this, and should anyone have it happen to them, whatever it is, they will bypass the weeks of banging head on wall that i had.



financially there is no good idea to be found so i finally got into the mindset as per Habitual's suggestion of keeping a stiff upper lip, accept that it sucks and just be thankful that i can choose any of these three options. I didnt respond well to this happening but it was a frustrating combination of having a car a very short period of time, a month prior when tires were fitted the mechanic telling me this is one of the best sorted cars he has ever seen with this age and while driving normal something went wrong, no one could tell me what but across the board people were saying this is going to cost a lot. I lost my cool - why tell me this is going to cost a lot if you dont know what the problem is, why would you tell me the engines are delicate and something minor coudl lead to a complete melt down but hey we will give you enough on trade for airfare to come up here and spend 4x what you spent buying this on one of our new models because those six months you owned your first one were that magical. It wasnt the price of anything per se it was the casualness these costs were presented to me like its basic maintenance and not being able to find a single creative solution on my own. ive never found a car where in two weeks we found a crank for 7k and one cam for 2k. that was it as far as things that were not off a salvaged car and no warranty on integrity of the part. I blew off some steam, will admit i said a few things im not overly proud of but i assumed this list serve was like every other one im on where people complain about the expensive things that break on the expensive cars we buy and should expect expensive repairs but refuse to admit that we made a dumb move or pretend like we didnt know this was possible when we bought it. I can see how i might have rubbed some people the wrong way and in response to their criticism while already in a bad mood my way of getting a little pick me up is to play into whatever it is that is bothering someone. Im not pretentious but if you think i am and it bothers you, im going to crank things i would never say feel or believe up to an 11 because........seeing people get that annoyed with someone they dont know and have no reason to care enough to form any opinion, its amusing to keep pushing that button so my bad news day digressed into immature baiting of people who maybe should admit they are wound a little too tight. when i dont like someone i dont befriend them or engage in conversation. the world is full of idiots - if they could take feedback and change their ways they would not act that way in the first place. When you on a site which implies you have nothing better to do, myself included, and looking to vent and comment on problems that for all of us are not real life problems.....we are on an aston martin users forum complaining about the troubles with our non daily super cars.
You come, vent, find many great people and some sent me some very kind PM's from this and for that i want to say thank you very much. it did mean something to me that i was having a bad day and someone random cared enough to take the time to help, give some guidance or words of encouragement. Thats why i go on these forums but perhaps as ive stepped into a new level of car i dont have the matching ascot and pocket square to be seen by all as a proper representation of an aston owner. People say you more or less find yourself by 27. at 27 i had just started a company making no money, i had 127 bucks in the checking account when i wanted to go out one weekend but thats about what i had every time i looked. That's forever me, it doesnt align with my current situation and if you read two minutes of any anecdote things wont line up but we are here to talk about cars, not analyze contextual side information brought up to frame the main point. Ive never been called pretentious before so on top of having no idea where that came from it actually made me laugh and feel better about what had happened. Ive never worn a tux in my life, i dont go sailing or aspire to, my favorite and only beverage is Diet Mt Dew and believe any meal over 50 a person is a rip off unless it includes a dry aged 20oz or above ribeye. Then a man has to splurge once in a while and step it up to 100. so i apologize if i offended anyone, it was clearly a misunderstanding of what i was trying to say and then me having fun with it from there. factually all true, things i talk about, never. The year this car was made i could didnt have the funds to buy the key. literally. Its been years but every evening i walk around my garage still wondering how this happened, i drive an hour every night to clear my head and enjoy these amazing pieces or art / engineering and love the community that goes along with it. Anyone can drive any one of my cars if they ask - the week before all this happened two kids at Shell were asking about it and wanted to instagram it before they left for bootcamp in the morning. i asked if both had some form of insurance and when i heard yes i gave them the keys, said ill go shopping next door for 30 minutes, go fast in a straight line, try to take turns slow since you dont know the car but if your headed out tomorrow to do something id never have the courage or sense of duty to live up to, the least i can do is make sure you guys have some semi legal fun before you ship off. I hope to be an owner for a long time of several cars over the years. i like trying to fix problems myself because i dont have a lot to do and its rewarding seeing something broken be fixed by your own hands in a day or two. things i work on today have results 7-8 years later and thats not motivating. Ive thought a lot about getting a job at autozone or midas as my retirement job and had to laugh when i found out the one would not hire someone without any automotive experience and the other couldnt hire someone who cant work mornings. i stay up until 4-5 and wake up around 11. its what i like and why not. so thats my level or snobbery. Ten year snap shot, 14 bucks an hour to 10k a week with a 7 figure buy out and following that my resume is declined at two jobs offering minimum wage and no benefits. if thats your life story do you think you would take yourself or anything all that serious.

 

All jacked up on Mountain Dew, that explains the novel's. JK. Just fix it as close to stock at a reasonable rate. Get the car back and enjoy it until another sparkly one comes along.

 

Your heart is in the right place, especially the way you made sure your employees were covered, and bottom line, a good man is hard to find [women say that backwards i think]

You're neglecting the third solution, just be patient and wait for the next rear end, sideswipe, rollover, 10,000 mile 4.7 to show up on ebay and you've got your car back for under $15k. THAT is the solutions I'd take. Well, or the 575 horse for $50k, I'd personally like that solution because I'd love to have my car with 575 ponies. But the logical solution is to just be patient. One will come up within the next 3-6 months, maybe longer, but patience is your friend. It's not like you're without transportation until it's fixed like I was.

 

Heard from the dealer today and after 3 days investigating and everything working fine but major damage took place i need a whole new engine. Their best guess is the secondary oil pump stopped working temporarily or the chance to the factory viscosity was outside of a pressure it was normally handling and for about a minute the top end wasnt getting nearly enough oil to function properly. main and rod bearings went, cams to crank and scaring on the cylinder heads of sleves.

2 weeks to get a motor in, about the same to replace it, 30k for everything and for that im getting a 2 year no cost for anything but tires and brakes warranty. oil changes, injectors, belts all covered

They must have know because i told my wife after running the numbers 30k is the end of the line where it no longer makes sense to rebuild a car the same way it broke, be 90k into a car i bought 6 months ago for 60k and it looks like its lost about 1500 a month in value since so a dollar more and it would part it out for what i could get, any less the idea of eating the 60k, sales tax, then still needing to buy a replacement which i would need to put down at least 25k-30k makes it justifiable. i cant think of anything i want more and if thats what they currently cost i would have likely justified it to myself in comparison to the field so ill spend the winter thinking it will be listed for sale once someone would think of buying it but for now happy to get it back before winter, 30k is better than the 50 i was told to expect and this does seem to be a rare occurance so i cant say anything bad about the brand, bad luck that reminded me what i know - 150k cars might sell for 50k but they still have 150k problems.

Researching the car i dint find any replacement 4.7s but i found so many reconditioned 4.3s that i just assumed those cost 8k, round up to 10k as a worst case and i can deal with that.

Buying rhe car on impulse as i was walking away from my office for the last time, thinking a long drive would be fun way to celebrate and clear thouughts about what happened.

Another good lesson - buy a used model that lived the life you will subject it to. this was driven 500 miles most years, never hit over 6k RPM in the engines life and never saw north of 85. i bought a perfect example but not one ready for its new life where it crossed the entire pen turnpike in about 45 minutes. I was going to drive it often and hard so one that had been there and done that while starting back up would have been better than conventional feedback of buy the best eample you can afford.


Good news - this is not systemic and the team at the dealer went about and beyond to find out why this happened. pumps fail but this just took a little siesta and that was that. No that i know what it was, know what options are available and can make an informed decision im not happy but i can live wihth it and not thing this is a brand or model to avoid.

Lack of dealerships does suck, deciding for years to sell cars and not keep mandated levels of spare parts when charing what they charge for the car and 200+ / hour in service.


I had carbon fouling with my R8, Spun cams on my GT2, blown motor on an aston - im somewhat to blame as these need to be driven to speed and for a reasonable amount of tiem. But i cant imagine jumping up to Ferrari, Lambo or Mclaren will make my repair bills much cheaper so does anyone still make a high performance car that can be more than garage art minus 8 special days a year where you drive it or pay the costs.

Each of these engines i was told were bullet proof, im not that bold of a driver to push near its limits so I hate to say it but it makes buying a new stingray or gt350r the only performance cars i can think of that worst case im paying 15k and thats for knocking he front enf off the car and losing the engine. They are not my brand of scotch but they drive great, numbers speak for themselves and while not rare mine only is because its taken residence at the dealer instead of the road.

Im looking forward to a drive home lasting about 4 hours when ready to come back but i feel like i just lost belief in santa, always wanted one and within a year i loved it and still felt it was not worth the time effort energy or cost to buy another.

Hand built in England is great for custom suits on saddle or customizing a well built car, but 70 years of a country doing amazing things 90% of the way and then universally agreeing that was good enough and move on, The will lose something to them carrying AMG motors but but what they will gain is a market who doesn't see these exotic cars and womder how is something so expensive so slow, shouldn't a racing motor be able to race anything and keep up, and if they dont care enough to stand behind their proudcts why do they expect old and new buyers to choose what is the least interesting car sold at its current price.

To its credit though, even a nerdy IT guy like myself felt like Bond at times when behind the wheel and when it was good it was quite enamoring.

Ill post something formal but if someone is interested in a 09, 19k miles on body, new internals and no potential out of pocket costs for a few years ill have one looking for a home. dont hesistate to reach out if you want to make an offer

Thanks for everyones help and encouragement along the way

Cheers

 

How can they get you a reman engine for 30k installed???

 

no idea. i have never been in the market so that seemed like a large enough bill i didnt want to push on it. what do they normally run? Maybe they are able to resue my core or something so they can offset some costs but the internals left intact.

i thought intially the dealer told me 45k so when i got an invoice for a new motor, warranty and after tax plus labor im barely out of the 20's 1) they either see im going to be someone who spends an illogical amount with them in the years ahead so make an investment in the future or 2) they have some price offset related to my motor

I did talk to them directly and i was pretty sure they said buying one of their engines would be the same about as sending to Bamford and giving it a mean streak

 

A reman long block at my dealer is 44k plus installation. Did you ask him what would be the state of this engine? I'd be concerned it'll be a used engine from a wrecked car with unknown history. Which is what I was suggesting by buying a wreck on ebay with good 4.7 and you'd be done for $15k with lots of parts to sell off to make much of it back.

 

Factory rebuilt to the same specs as any engine they sell. They are placing it under a warranty where i dont pay for oil changes for years and they know i would have bought an AMG or another 911 from them if the price was higher, either way they were going to do ok with this deal so i didnt ask much other than confirming the warranty as they cant be willing to assume the cost of a half thrown together salvage when if it was 45 i would have given the money to them in repairs or a new sale.

My car broken down is only worth something to them so options to sell were limited. I will say it was great working with them and they seemed to go down every avenue possible before making any suggestion to me and i never felt like they wanted anything but to get my car back on the road. For a dealership with a 3.4m Vulkan in the lobby, 2 million in Rolls, and probably another 5 in cars sitting out it was like working with my local indy who has been fixing my cars for 20 years. I was impressed so props out to Cleveland motorsports. Once hey get 75% done Im going to fly up, check out their 6 dealerships, as they are one of the few places that had about every car ive wanted to try out for when i get the itch again. I asked if that would be OK and they said just give them 24 hours notice and what car id like to drive back from the private strip 15 miles away and they will have it waiting when i land - with P&G here there is a private jet that goes back and forth to cleveland, chicago and new york and back each day. its 300 round trip to cleveland or chicago - didnt want to kick up dust again so letting it be know, a one way for 150 was 200 cheaper than delta so im actually being cheap flying private. go figure

 

They'll warranty anything under 10 years old that passes inspection, it certainly doesn't have to be new or rebuilt. They certified and warrantied a factory test car they'd beaten the **** out of for 26,000 miles.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by XJRS Owner
Oil pump took a 'break'? If the dealer told you that, they are full of it. Mechanical pumps don't stop and then start up again. Ask the dealer to explain their theory of the root cause of the failure again, because a temporary oil pump stoppage is not possible.
X2 someone is full of something and it doesnt smell nice


Only thing i could think of that might cause this was an obstruction in the pump, like from the guts of a non OEM oil filter that maybe wasn't pressure or vacuum tested...

This is why I always stick to OEM or OEM approved oil filters for all my vehicles.

 

Here is their final position and documentation. They said there is nothing else they can say or will do. Honestly, there really are not many options other than just agree and move on. This has taken 3 weeks of time, had my car shipped all over the midwest and if they quoted a fix i might not be happy about but can live with i think this just is what it is.

The bearings are damaged due to the vehicle having low oil pressure for an extended period of time, how the oil pressure was low is any bodies guess at this point. The oil pump could have been failing and not providing adequate pressure or low oil level for an extended time could have had the same effect (it's dripping oil all over the shop and parking lot). The reason the diagnosis does not seem very in depth is because once seeing the vehicle in person it was very obvious to the technician that the bearings are destroyed and internal engine damage has already occurred. The only fix is to replace or rebuild.

To your point below slighly low oil levels dont cause this type of damange, and a oil pump doesn't prepare for retirement then quit, they fail. I know these are ridiculous answers when i paid them to actually go in and prove this. I think my best bet is to document all of this and when i fly up to close out my tab of the remaining 50% use the cars depreciated value and their costs in it to my advantage. negotiate something with me or keep the car and eat the costs you have in it. you got 15k from me but take a moderate step my way or we both lose. you told me it was worth 2k on trade so i had to spend 15k so it now would have value, closing out the balance is what makes it profitable or not and for some reason with more and more companies you have to play off the fact they assume you are attached to the deposit, your car or whatever they are holding as leverage. The dont dont honor their side of agreements, take unshakable positions that are unreasonable by any standard so i hate resorting to this but ive never had much luck swaying opinions unless they believe im wiling to burn the bridge we both stand on. In the end of course id pay it, move on and get past but at least this way i tried to find some tilt back toward "fair"

 

For anyone who cared, after what was about 7 weeks I think, they traced the problem back to the oil filter, they dont believe it was the one on the car but what was on for the year before. Again im not technical so im just going by what they told me but the report says "due to the quantity and largely superficial scaring on the engine internals, confirming the oil pump was working as expected, we believe the engine had used a malfunctioning oil filter that was unable to keep the system under the pressure required.
The said this is a best guess but they cant think of anything else it could be. All of other systems are working fine, the engine still didnt show anything was wrong with it, and not noticing a large volume of oil on my garage floor and they didnt observe a loss over the two weeks of diagnosis so the best they can say is that the previous filter was not sealed properly and was faulty and worked at lets say 85% capacity. Oil would get through the engine, just not enough where there wouldnt be momentary friction points, and those would have left a lot of metal in the system, when we did a quick side of the track change i wasnt looking at what went into the catch can, and cant say i let it even fully drip dry. As a stready stream stopped to a couple drops i put the bolts back in, a new filter on and got back to my day.


Fully engine replacement + needed brakes and a clutch. They were able to offer a 15k core swap leaving the total bill just a shade above 42k which hurts BUT knowing the brakes and clutch can set you back 10k, a 0 mile engine with labor should be 45k, i went through the numbers and the Cleveland dealership essentially did this at their cost. It now has a 2 year fully warranty on the power plant and i have on the the few 18k mile 2009 Vantages with what is now a 550 mile motor, transmission and brakes. They claim that with the documentation i have, the condition the car is in otherwise they could expect to get 80k for it. I think that sounds a bit high to me, but with what i paid for it originally, putting about 45k into with tires a few months back I cant decide if i should see this as the fluke that it was and just enjoy a car that i all in all paid more for than i liked but still paid a lot less than the original owner and should enjoy it, and maintain on the schedule i know it needs going forward. OR does anyone think getting in the 70-75k range if a possibility? Most people who own these say they set aside 4-8k for repairs and upkeep - very few years will that be needed but a set of tires and a clutch at the same time and your looking at a 9k bad day so i think their match is sound. I can see someone who wants an older 4.7 because they are at a pretty good price right now, but doesnt want the uncertainty in the first year or two of buying a 10 year old exotic so the warranty at least to me would have provided at least 10-15k of value. This also includes routine maintenance so really everything but tires, brakes and normal wear items but air con, stereo, engine to oil changes - not charge no deductible. Its the worst time of year to by thinking of selling this car. it was 48 today and raining so i cant imagine the AM roadster market is strong but its an odd niche market, and what do i know.


Once a car bites back this hard its difficult to ever really trust it again. Every noise or sound im paranoid of so I might sell it and buy another one very much like it at a lower price or ill go back to a 911 Turbo or a R8 both i loved, both flawed cars as the aston was but both bring a lot more performance. This car really has sunk its hooks into me though and i dread the thought of parting with it, it is something that makes you feel special to be driving it.

Think its reasonable to even get north of 65k? if so where besides this forum and the usual online sites would you recommend posing it? If 65k is a coin flip then ive decided i can justify selling it after putting so much into it for any less, so it gives me an excuse to keep it and fingers crossed, nothing else goes wrong

Habitual - you were right. They said they only heard of 1-2 times this has happened but i got to be lucky 2-3 who suffered from a faulty OEM filter. The dealership was great to work with, the brand behind it less than helpful but ill pursue that on my own not the car is fixed.

Little bummed they cant say with 100% certainty this caused that but what they said does make sense ish and the didnt try many avenues to help so im inclined to believe them .


To anyone who does, check the coloring, and volume of your oil once a week like the manual says. i never followed that with any car ive owned and it caught up to me this time