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Highly impressed by easiest cheapest upgrade for 4.7
The delay in the 4.7 really annoyed me as well and it seemed like unless you stayed above 4K you never had power on tap. I can’t get myself to beat on an engine so once i see 5500 I have to shift. i only did the secondary cat bypass system. running factory headers, and the stock pipes, muffler and tips. I planned to do more but was going to go part by part lowest price first until I found something that felt right. I got it back yesterday and I’m amazed how it changed the engine. It loves to rev, shifts are faster and it just seems eager. The 4.7 always seems like a let down for the technology behind the build. An aluminum quad cam dry sump v8 is a racing motor and this just didn’t feel like one. I agree on not being able to justify the tunes. 20 bucks per hp or less is good value. there is a reason they recommend intake and exhaust work with a tune. That’s where gains are found and the tune moves the power band for usability but can’t change its output, only shift the manner it’s apllied. You might gain 20 hp at peak but look at 500 rpms later. It falls off a cliff. Logically think of the size of the dual air intake pipes. cats on the back end are 2 1/2 inches in diameter internally. That’s a massive bottle neck. remove the straw it’s forced to breather through and it becomes a runner. Not to mention the cats serve no purpose. 18 inches in length and the first sensor is next to the mount bracket and the down stream sensor is 3 inches down pipe????? It makes the car think it’s always running rich and mechanics who don’t know the car will sell you new o2 sensors for 400 a pop every 6 months. Save 60 lbs, pick up 20 hp, let the motor perform like it was made and sure it’s probably terrribke for the air but lookup how much coal is used to create the energy to charge a Tesla. Hint -‘every time a Tesla supercharges an angel gets diagnosed with black lung Anyone done 200 cels and also bypass pipes? Just curious if the difference was detectable. I saw 1600 in savings and don’t live in an inspection state so I kept the stock ones and decided if they don’t care to test why should I care about compliance? |
Installed my tune along with the upgraded VelocityAP clutch. The clutch was done first and I didn’t notice a substantial difference. Then I added the tune and like others said it woke up the car for sure. Much happier with the overall experience now. |
Originally Posted by karmafan84
(Post 4760092)
I agree on not being able to justify the tunes. 20 bucks per hp or less is good value. there is a reason they recommend intake and exhaust work with a tune. That’s where gains are found and the tune moves the power band for usability but can’t change its output, only shift the manner it’s apllied. You might gain 20 hp at peak but look at 500 rpms later. It falls off a cliff. Logically think of the size of the dual air intake pipes. cats on the back end are 2 1/2 inches in diameter internally. That’s a massive bottle neck. remove the straw it’s forced to breather through and it becomes a runner. Not to mention the cats serve no purpose. 18 inches in length and the first sensor is next to the mount bracket and the down stream sensor is 3 inches down pipe????? It makes the car think it’s always running rich and mechanics who don’t know the car will sell you new o2 sensors for 400 a pop every 6 months. Secondary cat deletes will make IRO 9-10BHP. Exhaust muffler section doesn't make any power but does drop about 35 lbs of weight. ECU Tuning on the other hand is closer to 30BHP, so your $/HP on secondary deletes alone is about $80, versus $45 or so with ECU Tuning. Obviously we'd love to be in a position like we are with a base Jag V6 engine which is factory sandbagged and can pick up 75BHP with a tune but the returns on tuning the Aston V8's are pretty noticeable for a normally aspirated engine. In terms of exhaust diameter, there's some advantage to having a larger tube in a header, post collector where the gases are superheated but moving further downstream, there's really no benefit to going larger. It's often thought that bigger = better with exhaust tubing but consider a few things:
We've done a lot of analysis on it and there really isn't any need to go larger than 2.5", beyond 'marketing' (quote, unquote.) On the later (2010.5-on) 4.7L Cars, the biggest bottleneck in the system is the redesigned exhaust manifolds, done to jam the primary cats up against the cylinder head for faster pre-heat and lower emissions on cold starts. |
Stuart - Following the forum for a year or so your company and the work you do goes without question. i have not read a single negative thing and everything you talk about you back up with actual quantitative figures. I think ive only looked at the price of your tune as part of a larger package as i had thought it was about twice the price your outlining below.
part of wanting to preface my response with "no idea if this is making any actual difference but i did i wanted a little louder exhaust note, saw that as the lowest price starting point and was pleasantly surprised when i drove off and for whatever reason the 2.5 inch wide open straight pipes instead of cats made a huge difference in the behavior of the engine" i dont think i gained much power but the car seems like it wants to use what it has with much less effort, more or less id compare it to the difference when i play a pickup game at the gym today vs 15 years ago. i wasnt impressing anyone then but non it takes 2-3 seconds before i can motivate myself to make a full court run. As you said this is a motor with limited areas where you can get more power. intakes and exhausts are pretty standard and the only other area (within reason) is a company like yours who can alter the fuel / air / spark ratios to squeeze a bit more out where available. from what ive read you dont want to run this car much over 500 HP at the crank as the internals are far from race ready quality. when i had my engine replaced some internal parts like the cylinder head connecting arms looks like a 12 dollar wrench set. If your going for power, you have 3 areas to look and the headers, exhaust and intakes are going to be expensive just by nature of materials / fabrication, and if you 4k into a build why not add on 1k more and top it off. if my goal was speed Id start with a tune, intakes and headers with 200 cel cats. didnt want to infer your price or offering is inflated or lacking value, just personally not something i could pull the trigger on but there is an amazingly long list of more expensive bad purchases i have made so i don't recommend anyone actually read what i saw and think there is a credible source behind it |
Originally Posted by karmafan84
(Post 4760168)
Stuart - Following the forum for a year or so your company and the work you do goes without question. i have not read a single negative thing and everything you talk about you back up with actual quantitative figures. I think ive only looked at the price of your tune as part of a larger package as i had thought it was about twice the price your outlining below.
part of wanting to preface my response with "no idea if this is making any actual difference but i did i wanted a little louder exhaust note, saw that as the lowest price starting point and was pleasantly surprised when i drove off and for whatever reason the 2.5 inch wide open straight pipes instead of cats made a huge difference in the behavior of the engine" i dont think i gained much power but the car seems like it wants to use what it has with much less effort, more or less id compare it to the difference when i play a pickup game at the gym today vs 15 years ago. i wasnt impressing anyone then but non it takes 2-3 seconds before i can motivate myself to make a full court run. As you said this is a motor with limited areas where you can get more power. intakes and exhausts are pretty standard and the only other area (within reason) is a company like yours who can alter the fuel / air / spark ratios to squeeze a bit more out where available. from what ive read you dont want to run this car much over 500 HP at the crank as the internals are far from race ready quality. when i had my engine replaced some internal parts like the cylinder head connecting arms looks like a 12 dollar wrench set. If your going for power, you have 3 areas to look and the headers, exhaust and intakes are going to be expensive just by nature of materials / fabrication, and if you 4k into a build why not add on 1k more and top it off. if my goal was speed Id start with a tune, intakes and headers with 200 cel cats. didnt want to infer your price or offering is inflated or lacking value, just personally not something i could pull the trigger on but there is an amazingly long list of more expensive bad purchases i have made so i don't recommend anyone actually read what i saw and think there is a credible source behind it |
RE: "ive read you dont want to run this car much over 500 HP at the crank as the internals are far from race ready quality"
Just in case you want more than 500hp. Pauter makes chromoly connecting rods for the 4.7 motor. With GT3 bearings and a shaved, balanced, nitride-hardened crank, it's good for 700hp. I have this setup along with the VelocityAP powerpack (headers, cats, tune), a GT4 intake, a twinplate clutch with an AMR flywheel and oversized Michelin 4S tires on a widened track. I wouldn't recommend all these changes if you're not going to keep the car for awhile, but I'm nearing 10 years and 50,000 miles, so I definitely received a great value for the price. |
Originally Posted by Noahcpa
(Post 4760104)
Installed my tune along with the upgraded VelocityAP clutch. The clutch was done first and I didn’t notice a substantial difference. Then I added the tune and like others said it woke up the car for sure. Much happier with the overall experience now. |
Originally Posted by SLVRon
(Post 4846111)
I noticed today that Bamford Rose recommend against just doing a tune without also upgrading the exhaust system. Something to do with going beyond the tolerances of the factory cat.
https://youtu.be/eB10R0u_JWo |
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