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Originally Posted by TiALSport
(Post 3320162)
these are GT turbos, with turbine housings to allow them to bolt on to a Porsche
there is no sense to tune for more on the car because the power level it's at now it at the limit and it happens to make that limit very early in the power band...so instead of having the power band continue upwards tony held it flat to maintain. the turbos themselves are far from their limit |
Originally Posted by prodigymb
(Post 3320168)
once again, you got alot of research to do. EvoMS uses Tial Alpha turbos. Look at their website. They always have used Tial turbos even before Alphas came out. to answer your original question, yes these turbos still have alot of headroom and can make another 150-200whp on a built motor. on my car i had a number in mind that i wanted to get to which was 625 and thats what we went for since that is what we were both comfortable at.
here is a car they did on 109 and meth with a tad more boost. |
Originally Posted by orygunturbo
(Post 3320175)
Thanks for the clarification. There seems to be some confusion about tuning vs stock heads, etc...So with the alphas, you can tune them so they provide a more level tq curve rather and not sacrifice peak tq to do so? All the one's I;ve seen resemble humps rather than plateaus.
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Originally Posted by Tony@epl
(Post 3320177)
A few notes on this statement... for the record.
1- Mark's torque was limited and "crept" in. This caps the "shock" that the stock connecting rods receive on the initial power "hit" 2 - My best estimate is that this car would have spools ~250 rpm sooner with about 25-35 more ftlbs then is displayed on the graph. 3 - Its VERY difficult to compare our dyno results to many other mustang dynos in the US. We run our dyno calibrated with the exact procedure that Mustang themself uses, while many other shops do not. For example here is a dyno sheet from another mustang dyno where a stock car makes 405 wheel hps. This translates into a 2-3% drive train loss. Im VERY happy with the results from this car... to date this is one of the high hp stock motor cars we have done on our dyno here in house! |
Originally Posted by TiALSport
(Post 3320190)
because they are geared more for mid range power/drivability and sized accordingly....you can get a flat tq curve, using larger turbos
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Originally Posted by orygunturbo
(Post 3319677)
This is what I am talking about. HP just keeps climbing. E46 M3.
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...rbo/Stage3.gif this Porsche is making power and tq sooner than the above graph, maintains a flat tq band and is kicking out 1032whp making more power/tq throughout the revband than the above M3 http://www.tialmedia.com/random/1032.png |
Mark, awesome numbers. Can't wait for a ride! :)
Question, regarding all the comments about how power doesn't keep climbing to redline... any chance that your setup is now exhaust-limited a tad? Regardless, those're great numbers... hope you can grab some PBOX data and see where it falls in the "monster-996TT" realm. |
Originally Posted by orygunturbo
(Post 3320195)
Good point about comparing dynos. I guess they also can be made to be decceiving. I know people don't think I know much but that's ok since I'm a newbie but I've been around quite a few turbos. I like this forum since people post intelligent things. Still would like to know if anyone has generated a flat tq curve with Alphas without losing peak tq?
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Originally Posted by TiALSport
(Post 3320198)
Best example i can think of...
this Porsche is making power and tq sooner than the above graph, maintains a flat tq band and is kicking out 1032whp making more power/tq throughout the revband than the above M3 http://www.tialmedia.com/random/1032.png
Originally Posted by johnspeed
(Post 3320200)
Stick around here,, You havent seen anything yet...lol...hilarious
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Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM
(Post 3320199)
Mark, awesome numbers. Can't wait for a ride! :)
Question, regarding all the comments about how power doesn't keep climbing to redline... any chance that your setup is now exhaust-limited a tad? Regardless, those're great numbers... hope you can grab some PBOX data and see where it falls in the "monster-996TT" realm. |
Originally Posted by orygunturbo
(Post 3320175)
Thanks for the clarification. There seems to be some confusion about tuning vs stock heads, etc...So with the alphas, you can tune them so they provide a more level tq curve rather and not sacrifice peak tq to do so? All the one's I;ve seen resemble humps rather than plateaus.
Originally Posted by Tony@epl
(Post 3320177)
A few notes on this statement... for the record.
1- Mark's torque was limited and "crept" in. This caps the "shock" that the stock connecting rods receive on the initial power "hit" 2 - My best estimate is that this car would have spools ~250 rpm sooner with about 25-35 more ftlbs then is displayed on the graph. 3 - Its VERY difficult to compare our dyno results to many other mustang dynos in the US. We run our dyno calibrated with the exact procedure that Mustang themself uses, while many other shops do not. For example here is a dyno sheet from another mustang dyno where a stock car makes 405 wheel hps. This translates into a 2-3% drive train loss. Im VERY happy with the results from this car... to date this is one of the high hp stock motor cars we have done on our dyno here in house!
Originally Posted by orygunturbo
(Post 3320183)
Respectfully, the Evoms GT780 I believe is with the GT turbos upgraded from Gt28s, not Alphas. External wastegates, not internal. The graph you just posted looks like a typical Alpha hump. I'm not bashing Alpha's or your set-up. They give what they give. For bolt-ons, you can't beat them. I'm an outsider just giving an unbiased opinion or do you want everyone just to say how great it looks?
-EvoMS uses Tial turbos on their GTXXX packages and other turbos on ther one-of builds. -Switzer uses Tial turbos -EPL uses Tial turbos Its right on EvoMS website all you have to do is look. If anything the EvoMS graph you posted has the "hump" in hp. GT750 and GT800 kits use them... http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...gymb/evoms.jpg
Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM
(Post 3320199)
Mark, awesome numbers. Can't wait for a ride! :)
Question, regarding all the comments about how power doesn't keep climbing to redline... any chance that your setup is now exhaust-limited a tad? Regardless, those're great numbers... hope you can grab some PBOX data and see where it falls in the "monster-996TT" realm.
Originally Posted by orygunturbo
(Post 3320213)
Exactly my point or related to that which is why I said "constipated" in an earlier post but the tuner says it was tuned that way to preserve internals.
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I believe I read somewhere that someone used GT3 heads/cams on their turbo. I assume this would add a lot to the top end numbers and flatten the high rpm torque curve.
Of course you would lose bottom end torque in the process and I believe 98% of the people here would be more than happy to have prodigymb's numbers. :) I know I would. Later, Steve |
Great info prodigy...you and Tony have taught me some great things about the Tial turbos. Now I just need to decide..what to go with Tial Alpha 3076s or some precision 55/62 billet/cea's.
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Originally Posted by Steve Jarvis
(Post 3320261)
I believe I read somewhere that someone used GT3 heads/cams on their turbo. I assume this would add a lot to the top end numbers and flatten the high rpm torque curve.
Of course you would lose bottom end torque in the process and I believe 98% of the people here would be more than happy to have prodigymb's numbers. :) I know I would. Later, Steve |
Originally Posted by prodigymb
(Post 3320257)
yeah mine was the first flat HP graph that i have seen. i also have the newest Tial compressor which is a Forced Performance HTA one.
I am very happy as well, not only with the numbers but with how it drives. On the drive home 188 miles - I used 8.89 gallons averaging a real 21mpg. If you knew a tad more about 996tt dyno graphs you would know what looks good and what doesnt for this particular motor/platform rather then compare it to HPF M3s hilarious -EvoMS uses Tial turbos on their GTXXX packages and other turbos on ther one-of builds. -Switzer uses Tial turbos -EPL uses Tial turbos Its right on EvoMS website all you have to do is look. If anything the EvoMS graph you posted has the "hump" in hp. GT750 and GT800 kits use them... Why don't you just set your rev limiter to 5500 since you're not making any more power after that. You can save even more gas. ;) |
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