Steven you are a dog POS!

You have been a huge champion of the Bentley brand and the model of Continental ever since I have been one here and now you are selling out and going full geezer glide. RR what the H-ll!

Darn I love the RR too and I have dreamed of owning every model they have. My local dealer sells RR, Bentley, Maserati and now Aston Martin. Going to that place is heaven and hell at the same time because I love everything but can not afford any of it. I did drive the Ghost two years ago and thought it was quite a fine car.

If i every wanted a larger car in the Bentley line I would look at the Mulsanne, the FS just does not do it for me. I actually think Bentley makes nicer interiors than Rolls if you only count the ones I have seen. Good luck on the search half, or more, of the fun is in the journey.

 

Well, Steven it looks like you have been hooked up by the Wraith...to say the least.

I agree with you about the luxury and the customer service.
but
I'm not ''dreaming'' about buying a RR.I would have bought one instead of the CGT if that was the case. Its too big, too ostentatious and most of its technology is just ''show off''.

C'mon, having your GPS instructing your gearbox about the next bend and ''choosing'' the ''right'' gear! absurd... I rather prefer to have a 4 wheel drive instead!
I agree that Bentley is less than helpful for us and refuse to admit the various design mistakes but on another hand you pay €250k for a GT and €450k for a WRAITH!!! you have some margin for repairs in that.

last, I don't feel that the RR has a ''bigger'' presence, a different one, yes but I'm not convinced that it's a ''plus''.

Anyway, one of my friend bought a WRAITH in Denmark and I will have the opportunity to drive it next summer. I will give you my final opinion after but as for now it's still BENTLEY=1 RR=0.

 

Ha that is what my wife says and she refuses to be seen on one. They are a bit much but i could do it.

Yeh I forgot about that GPS and choosing gears for you.

I am Bentley man for today but i have already eaten so many words that i will not promise the future.

Love the spirited discussion.

 

You guys are awesome! Was on the site spec'ing one out and have never had a white car. So was thinking kinda like ULSTRUP's R8, Artic White exterior (single color), white interior, black striping (read: not threading/sewn, I mean the leather striping option) for the interior. Only hangup to the look are the rims, but we can chrome those to match the grill center and grill outer and then (MAYBE, not sure of this) paint the inner bits white. Yeah, a real clean 'P.I.M.P Daddy' look about it. Call it my 'fun for me toy car'.

As you know Dr. D, the first B was a triple black 'Bad Boy' GT. So time to flip it and reverse it. BTW, I want a convertible so, yeah, along the lines of the Phantom Drop but, as i said, they have a new model coming out. And yeah, am addicted to the feeling one gets within a proper convertible. I feel in love with the teak rear deck and really debated doing that for the GTC.


Just did a web search... so sorta kinda like www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/624502467/overview/?aff=mitula

 

you must be kidding me Steven!
a white RR!! next step will be a gold plated spirit of ecstasy....and in no time you will end selling oil in Abu Dhabi.....

the R8 is a SMALL sport car and the side blades are not stripes but real carbon fibre and the inside is Black...

I might, just, consider a WRAITH in black and grey duo tone with a grey interior with black piping...IF this car doesn't behave like a soft sofa on wheels!.

my suggestion: buy yourself a Mulsanne speed and with the change left (compared to the €450k) buy yourself a second hand Mc laren...

 

ULSTRUP and Dr D, showed the wife my idea and she said I'm too young for the RR. She'd be ok with it, my choice, yet obviously wasn't enthused. The Jag seems too pedestrian. Showed her the Spyker B6 convertible and she liked the look of that, but it has no roof ever. Did some meddling around on the web and showed her the Lotus Elise (and could just keep the GTC and get the Low-tie). She liked the Lotus (smart girl).

Side Note: Threw a 'flyer' investment into a race track here MANY years ago. Lots of legal stuff between the track and the locals with their NIMBY. Years of utter crap ensued. Well, after what seems like FOREVER the track in Tamworth NH is actually going to open. So yeah, the GTC is basically worthless and have nothing for the track here. Gentlemen, these are my problems today

I still like the RR idea and what's wrong with white, yet make it rose gold instead of chrome on all bits if you REALLY want to be an oil rich sheik type.

BTW: Wow, this room is a really tough crowd

 

Rolls Wraith.
You may have seen this Steven, but if not, here you go;

 

ExSF,


Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout!


Do they offer a 'Wraith Experience' weekend where we can do that too within the same property. The really large open field looks extremely tempting and there is one of those near me, too. Alas, owned by someone else I'm afraid.


Here's a nice video so you can compare it to the Bentley.

 

there is no doubt that BMW added several layers of luxury to the RR brand compared to AUDI/BENTLEY.

having said that, I don't believe that the inside finishing is ''better'' as such, the woodwork, the leather work, the inox in my opinion are of similar quality. I don't believe that there is much more room for the back seats passengers and the electronic gizmo's-IE: lane departure and such..- doesn't appeal to me.

I don't like the seats, they don't fit a coupé and if you compare apple to apple I prefer the MULSANNE seats.

the GPS and its associated services is very impressive but is not different of the ones you can find in a Mercedes, a Lexus or a ...BMW.
it's VERY different than the BENTLEY one, that's clear.

the star roof is funny but a little bit ''too much'', for my taste.

all in all I do prefer the inside of the BENTLEY, but that just me, obviously.

I still do believe that the 200k€ difference in price is outrageous.

Steven, listen to your wife you're too young for that, hell! even I feel I'm too young for that.

Les, you Brits. are the best in the world for designing amazing gardens.

 

Over time, I think the RR finish will outlast the Bentley. As new, agree they are similar.


Hmmm, I prefer the RR seats. Plus on my gravestone it can say "He NEVER owned a 4-door car". As for the back seat, I'd rather have another place for storage. You'd be amazed what I could fit into that small Ferrari during shopping trips(!).


Bentley really has been lackluster in their tech dept and when the finally do a proper revamping of the GT it had better be using at least on the level of the Mercedes top S series. Especially now that Bentley's and Roll Royce cars at this level are actually priced about the same in some respects.



Agreed. Nice for a limo, yet not my thing. The convertible Wraith should be out in 2016 so am right now popping my head up and looking in preparation for another change. By then it will be three years with the GTC, plus two-ish years with the GT. Five years of basically the same car get boring, especially when there are so many excellent vehicles to choose from.


Please recheck your math. A good optioned W12 Bentley GT is around $235 on up, step back a year for a used 2014 Wraith is $270.


www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2014-Rolls-Royce-Wraith-c23891#listing=105437963


I believe you are stretching it quite a bit. We'll see where they price the Wraith convertible when it comes out and I have a feeling the pricing difference between it and a GTC won't be that far off when you consider the added quality, luxury, etc. Rolls Royce really is looking to compete in an aggressive way. Have virtually never heard anyone complain about BMW factory service when it comes to standing behind their product.



Rolls is really seeking out younger drivers and it shows in many ways. If Bentley wants to 'keep me' they'll have to work for it at this point. BTW, was in Germany last week and for grins and giggles looked a few W12 Phaetons and what they sell for. Saw the bits used in the Phaeton and compared to the Bentley. Then look at RR and the bits inside of it. Compare.


IMHO Bentley is lagging far behind and desperately needs to get something out that better reflects their price level with features and properly bespoke bits for the price being asked, not grab whatever looks ok off the VW Group's parts in. At least not at the asking price for the new Bentley cars.


BTW, my wife did also like the Maserati. They're 1/2 the price of the Bentley. Not too shabby for the money. Did have a $5k down payment on a Maserati when they first came out (back to USA, technically). Bailed on getting a Maserati as during the test drive I could easily feel the chassis flex so that didn't inspire confidence.


Guys, plan to have MUCH fun in the GTC this year. It is a great car and pretty cheaply priced when used, of course offset by the typical very high servicing costs. That's the game at the level of course, so I want to choose carefully. As one gets a bit older, and hopefully (yet no guarantee) wiser, have come to respect a company that stands behind the quality of their products. My local dealer / service center has been exceptional and as time=money, my time for fun is getting far less as am being pulled in MANY directions. Some very lucrative propositions are being brought to me as the online / streaming music biz is about to have some interesting changes and they need someone who understands the many facets...


Life is a highway...

 

two comments:

if you look to the 2004/2005 CGT models available on the market you can say that, for the properly maintained ones, the inside looks almost ''as new'', except for the seats bolsters....
so, I don't think that the RR finish will outlast the BENTLEY.

regarding the price
let's be fair and compare apple to apple, a new CGT and a new RR

in Monaco/France, the average price of a NEW RR WRAITH is € 354 000 including the average options package.
the average price of a NEW CGT W12 is 230 000 including the average options...
that's about us$ 390 000 against us$253 000...

a 2011 WRAITH can be found at abt. 250/290 k€ a 2011 BENTLEY CGT W12 can be found at abt 130/150 k€....

so, the AVERAGE difference in price either new or used is still 100/150 k€.

either the BENTLEY is very cheap or the RR is VERY expensive! your choice...

last, but certainly not least, the ''image'' of a BENTLEY owner has always been and IMHO will always be that of a car ''fan'', a ''driver'' maybe a wealthy one, but still .....what's the image of a RR owner?

 

You make some very good points. Of course with the RR you can see where the added money has gone into with parts, technology, etc.

As for perceived image, another good point yet perceptions do change over time. Have a feeling Europeans have a bit of a different mindset than those on this side of the pond and that could very well be a factor you are (rightly) bringing to the forefront. I remember being in London and seeing people literally spit on a Ferrari as it drove by. What does that say about Ferrari and its perception in Europe?

The new Corvettes are very impressive performance cars with some nice tech, too, and they are far less money than either the Bentley or the Roller. America's Cadillac brand is making strides in many ways, too. The perception of those who ride Harley Davidson motorcycles seems to have changed quite a bit over the years.

Things change, society ebbs and flows... Am sure we all agree Bentley desperately needs to modernize and upgrade their cars to keep up with the tech automobiles for 1/2 the cost offer. I look forward to seeing what the new model from Bentley offers when it rolls off the assembly line in a few years... and how they price it.

We do indeed live in interesting times.


PS: As I said, Bentley is going to have to earn my business and they need to make many improvements to at least stay even with what is currently out there. BTW, am curious what the average VW W12 Phaeton costs in your country, as you seem caught up on pricing and they are much like the Bentley in many respects. Thank you.

 

Yes, you're right, the perceived image is very different in France and generally speaking in Europe compared to the U.S...... for various reasons!

you should know that French President HOLLANDE has said, during its 2012 election campaign:
quote:
''....finance is my enemy....I don't like the rich...'' during a television speech
unquote
that says it all....

generally speaking, in Europe, the image of expensive car and expensive car owners is not good.
cars suffers heavy taxation, the world champion being Denmark with 180% luxury tax+25% VAT + various other niceties ( a Wraith costs the best part of 1 million$ and a CGT a mere 750000$) and road taxes and petrol prices are both very high.

having said that, in France, a Bentley or a Porsche have a better image than a RR or a Ferrari. why? I just don't know.

regarding the PHAETON it's rather difficult to answer your question accurately.
first due to gasoline price versus diesel price most of the PHAETON sold in France were V6 diesel engine. you can find those at 25/30 k€ for 2011/2012 model.
second, the PHAETON was a commercial failure in France, as well as in the rest of the world I believe, and there are a very few second hand for sale.

regarding the W12 the only example I have found is a 2003 model with 60kmiles offered at 33k€!

 

A French friend of mine once said, "what I like about you English is that if you want something, like your car, you just go out and buy it. In France, we worry what the neighbour would think".

The French do seem to appreciate Bentley's but that could be due to the 'Le Mans' connection.

In the UK at present, there is only one W12 Phaeton for sale on Auto Trader. It's a 2004 with 77,000 miles and it's priced at £6,695.
That's about $4,000 US.

Les.

 

Wow, it is always interesting to hear about how Europeans view such cars versus the States. Was on another B board and they also seem to have problems with the stigma of driving a B versus a 'normal' car. You guys should move to the USA. Oh, wait, on second though we should all move somewhere else.

Yearly tax on the 07 GTC including inspection is around $800 USD here. Insurance is around $1k annually if you are curious.

So yes, seems our opinions vary due to where we are located in the world and the perceptions by others accordingly. In Southern Florida or Southern California, I see Bentley cars like they are a typical upper like Renault or M3 in Europe. So they really do not stand out at all, and if fact appear to be very commonplace. Perhaps the market here is saturated with them, whereas with a Rolls Royce (or even a McLaren) being something far more special. Modern Ferrari cars (anything after 1980) are also very commonplace in many respects and they don't really 'command' anything special as they once did.

Have a feeling all this overproduction is really hurting a brand's image. Of course constant defects and high servicing costs doesn't help matters either, when these cars are so expensive you'd think they'd be better built for long-term reliability over, say, a lowly Toyota. I beat the snot out on a 1980's Nissan Sentra and it was never any trouble. My parent's Toyota Celica Supra, also from the 1980's, was also very reliable. Come to think about it, the $16k 2006 Ford Ranger and $38k 2008 Ford Superduty also saw some hard use and they never had a single hiccup. I pulled a big 21' enclosed trailer with race car in the V8 Superduty for thousands and thousands of miles, with the V6 Ranger having two years hauling a Featherlite open trailer with tire rack, storage and Ferrari.

It really does beg the question why they can't make such expensive cars reliable for daily use when they are used and serviced regularly... and at such high cost.