Stuka...opinions on the $70k GT-R vs. similarly priced used Porsche's?

 

No idea about the Nissan. It sounds like an interesting car though, and at least there is a reason why it's heavy like the M3, it has an AWD system.

If you are 2003.5, you at least have the 100K engine warranty.

However, I do know that the M64 block on the Turbo, GT2/3 are dead reliable, as long as there are no type 2 or type 3 overrevs. It's true dry sump, and the same block as in the GT1. This is totally different than the M96 faux dry sump on the non GT and Turbo cars.

 

Considering the E36 M3 started 5k higher then the E30 M3 and the E46 started 5k higher then the E36 - an 11k Higher then E46 base price sounds crazy

The car is just not worth 70k when options are factored in... its just not - thats 1 year old Porsche territory...

 

And porsche is where with PDK? Does porsche even know what an Ipod is yet (hardwired, not fm modulated junk)? You can fit how many adults in a 911? How much luggage? Is the C2 and C2S motor on par with the M3's? Is it really an apples to apples comparison?

57k base, less for the sedan, they are going to sell like hot cakes. How is the value of the dollar in comparison to when the E36 launched? How about the E46?

 

No one except you seems to think of the M3 as solely a track oriented vehicle. The M3 is a car that can be used daily, you can have fun in, can push at the track, hold more than 2 people in, and go grocery shopping.

Really, I honestly spent more time on the street with my m3 than on the track. I know that seems far fetched, but you might even be suprised that guys with GT3's use their cars on the street too.

You are reaching so far to prove the m3 is too heavy that you talk about the weight of fuel in the car. How is that long list of cars you would rather have for 65k coming along?

BMW sure would sell a lot more m3's without backseats, sound deadening, and with lexan windows and R compounds, wouldn't they?

 

stuka is also famous on rennlist with his anti-sunroof/electronic driver aids posts. Now he's gonna famous on 6speed with anti-E92 M3 (weight+hp)/price posts.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...92#post4497792

I had to take a second and think how I familiar with this person.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...6&postcount=88

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...7&postcount=80

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...7&postcount=71

 

So, M = Marketing?

It is a car with a purported sporting attribute, and yet, can't go to the track in stock form?

What's even more is a lowly base Coxster can do better on the track, and let's face it, unless you spec'ed your M3 like mine without sunroof, the backseat area is laughable.

One of my daily driver is a GT2, and it works just fine. And so did the Turbo. So, this M3 is superior on the streets, well, a softer cruiser sure, but if I want a soft *** cruiser, there are plenty of other BMW's to choose from. Namely, an E38 sport with a 6 speed conversion, or even an E39 M5, which actually can carry four people. This new M3 is the jack of imaginary many trades and for sure the master of not a damn thing.

You really need to drive a lighter car with a real engine and brakes, on the track even better. Because your posts show that you simply have no idea. If you seriously can't tell the difference in fuel or passenger weight, you need more seat time. So, do the rear pads wear faster on your M3 than the fronts? Do you drive with DSC off on the track?

Z06, 996 GT3, 996 Turbo. Any one of the three will do nicely. What's the matter? too hard core for you? Sunroof cramps your style? No iPod! The horror!

Then call it what it is, a 340 sport, and be done with it. Put in an automatic slushie box, make sunroof mandatory, have heated cupholders like the regular 3, and let's not pretend, shall we?

Lastly, scratch that, why don't you go drive an E30 M3. Maybe you will then understand what some of us multi M3 owners are talking about.

 

The rennlist people all think they are god's gift to driving, and boy, if they cannot fathom driving a car without PSM or TC to "unf*ck my line at 100+," then no one must be able to do it, right?

What's better, apparently they all have unlimited bank accounts and can take their cars and go for timed laps. Never mind that no road insurance covers that, and never mind that even though yo umight be able to write a check for the car, that perswon you injured on the track just might bk your ***. But no, they are so skilled that they can talk lap time all day long and have zero insurance coverage on track.

If you need TC or whatever to not crash on the track, you WILL crash on the track, mark my words. I have seen it too many times, and having to sit in the pits while they clear out the track and tow the god's gift to driving dudes cars off the track is just what I want to do.

 

Answer me this, does your E46 M3 have a sunroof?

Come on now, let's be honest.

 

Do GT3's have sunroofs?

Is an M5 supposed to be a track car as well? What about an M6? Tell me, how does the CSL do on a track?

You need to get over yourself and over this obsession with street cars needing to be track cars. Why even look at 3000+ pound cars if they are going to be seeing mostly track duty? Maybe some of these people buying comfortable, sporty, street cars have dedicated track vehicles?

The new M3 sucks because it can't compete in formula 1 out of the box. That is, unless hans stuka is behind the wheel.

 

Why can't you go to the track exactly? Do they throw you off it if you show up in a stock M3? The m3 brakes did not seem to really bother me that much. My cayennes brakes fade more than my M3's ever did, fact and not suprising in the least considering it is an SUV. Maybe you should start a crusade agaisnt porsche because the cayenne does not have suitable brakes for track junkies in stock form, eh? What kind of a joke of an SUV made by the sports car company porsche can't go to the track in stock form? Guess porsche is just good at marketing these days.

As we all know, what matters most when going out in your car is if you get to your destination faster than everyone else. Quickest lap time wins!

I'll make sure to tell people looking for a daily driver that a GT2 works well everyday for you. The rear seats in the GT2... oh wait a minute. Well maybe the rear seats in a C2S... oh no, I have friends with legs.

I don't need to do a damn thing because I don't commute on a race track. No one other than schumacher does. How many posts, until you get it?

So your list of cars you would rather have are all 2 seaters. Big suprise there, they really match up well to an m3 don't they? And how many of those can you purchase new for the price of an m3? I'll spare you the trouble of thinking since I think we have had enough of that, exactly 0.

Hate to break it to you, if your standard for m3's is the E30 no car BMW ever produces will ever satisfy it. It is a one of kind car that only comes around once and could have only come in that time period. You are feeling nostalgia and its nice. Too bad logic does not have a similar strong impact with you. The E30 was a great car. I'll take my bluetooth, my DSG, my airbags, my ipod connection, my satellite radio, my full leather, etc. in my modern car. If you are looking for something like an E30 experience, maybe you should look at an E30 instead of holding a new car to a standard it will never satisfy?

 

Hans Stuka

 

Like I said, you need more seat time. 10 track days is what? 5 weekends. How many are actually instructed?

I can name a list of instructors and guys in fast groups with blued rotors when they showed up with stock M3's. And guess what happens when you blued your rotors? Right, it's on your own dime.

This is why BMW guys are alwasy futzing with pads, fluids, lines, different rotors, and even BBK. Because BMW brakes sucks. And with the M cars, there is no excuse to not fit it with brakes at least as good as a base Coxster. It simply cannot cost that much, or are we forgetting how much BMW charged for the NAV in the E46 M3?

As I said, you don't get it.

Do your rear pads wear faster than the fronts? And do you drive with DSC on on the tracks? And which tracks have you been to?

You never answered my question, does your M3 have a sunroof? If you do, you are delusional in thinking that it can carry two people in the back for anhy length of time. Remember, my M3 had no sunroof, and it wasn't exactly spacious in the back.

Z06 costs the same OTD. So are you saying people do not cross shop new and slightly used cars? Perhaps if you have a BMW, because you actually need to use the warranty.
So, anything that doesn't have BT, DSG, and SAT radio is a what? a driver's car?

Why not go for broke and get an automatic? Like I said, if they want to make a GT car fine, call it 340 Sport, put in a slushie with mandatory sunroof, some bling bling dub's, and it will sell like hotcackes.

 

When all else fails, always resort back to getting personal.

I never understand people who equate their car with their self worth.

 

It is only in the U.S. that the 997 GT3's come with mandatory sunroof, no doubt because of the certain demographics that they are trying to catering to. You know, kind of like turning a once nibme and fast M3 into a 340 sport.
So your M3 has a sunroof? Yeah, you got lots of headrooms back there.

CSL sucks at the track because it still had no brakes. Where do you think ex M3'ers go after that? Right, GT's or Turbo's. You can probably find tons on this board.

I didn't know a GT2 is a track car?

You don't seem to understand, there are plenty of cars that you can drive to the track in it, drive on the track, and go home in it. Even a cheap Coxster will do it. Oh and BTW, I had to order manual seats with no sunroof on the M3 because the 3 series simply has no head room, especially when you put on a helmet.

Just because it has a roundel doesn't mean it's god's gift to the motoring world.

The new M3 sucks because anyone other than a rookie on the track will completely destroy the brakes. And while it is true that even the most ardent track junkies still need to drive the car to work, it is inexcusable to be charging this kind of money for a cobbled together car that is neither sporty nor a proper GT.