Porsche Certified? What's the point?
 

I freely admit that the following is a bit of a rant and a complaint. But I think that it's important to alert other members as to what "Porsche Certified" really means in terms of Porsche as a mark and a company.

In Feb 2013 I purchased a 2010 Porsche Boxster S with 16,900 miles in it from Isringhausen imports in Springfield, IL. I found the car on cars.com. I paid a few thousand more because the car was "Porsche Certified", well over $50,000. I've owned 5 BMWs, a few Lexii, an Audi, and any number of other cars, most of them new. The Boxster was supposed to be warrented until 2016. Awesome!

The purchase went smooth and the car was delivered to my home in New Hampshire in early February. Needless to say I wasn't going to be able to drive it for a while in the snow and ice. I managed to put 3 miles on it until late April, when the roads cleared.

Driving around town was fine. Then, on a few isolated roads, I opened it up. Accelerating to just below red line in first gear, I shifted to second, but the clutch wouldn't "grab", the engine revs just sat at around 6500 and the car wasn't accelerating. I found that if I didn't shift quite as fast and let the revs drop to 5000 or below the transmission worked fine.

I drove the car a few more times, trying to figure out what was going on. After about 500 miles (mostly highway, with a 370 mile round trip to Maine and a few trips to work and back) I brought the car to Porsche of Nashua, where a certified Porsche technician rode with me. Diagnosis; a worn clutch was slipping. Damage: over $3,000. Not awesome.

I called Isringhausen. The first suggestion was that Porsche of Nashua was trying to generate repair business. I ignored that statement. Then I suggested that we put their service department in touch with the technician at Porsche of Nashua. This took over a week. In the meantime, I took another trip to Maine and some other short trips, so now I've put around 1,000 miles on the car, but remember, I reported it almost right away.

Isringhausen came back and said "sorry, brakes, tires, and clutch are "wear" items and aren't covered". I pointed out that I couldn't have worn the clutch out in a few hundred miles, they just missed it when they certified the car. They wouldn't budge. Now note, these were the 3 cars I owned before I bought the Boxster:

2007 BMW 650i convertible - 6 speed manual
2004 BMW Z4 3.0i - 6 speed manual
2001 BMW 540i - 6 speed manual

I drove those cars a total of almost 80,000 miles with absolutely no transmission problems, but somehow I blew a Porsche clutch in a few hundred miles.

So I called Porsche Customer Service, talked to a nice lady who said they would follow up. After the long Memorial Day weekend I received my response; sorry, the dealer won't budge. I asked what they were going to do about it. Her response was "Porsche Certified is a program that we offer to dealers. It is up to them to make it right." IOW, it isn't "Porsche Certified" at all. It's "Dealer Certified". A dealer can sell you anything and if they screw up, you have no recourse. Porsche doesn't back up "Porsche Certified" in any way!

BUYER BEWARE!

I had a similar situation back in 04. 2001 base Boxster, certified with 17k miles. After 1 week found leaking RMS. Dealer disassembled and found clutch was shot and needed replacement, clutch not covered. Told the dealer (not the purchasing dealer) stop, do nothing. Drove there and asked to inspect the clutch. Clutch was shot, but no heat discoloration. Asked the tech if he felt there was any way I could have burned out that clutch in 100 miles and not show heat damage (blueing). He said no. I took pictures, let the dealer do the job, paid them, then went straight to the purchasing dealer with the pictures and story. They reimbursed me for the job, but if I remember correctly the reimbursement came from Porsche. Dealer has no way to inspect the clutch prior to sale. It was a pain but they did make good.

I dont think you can blame Porsche for things like worn clutch.

You should not expect CPO cars to cover everything that is wear and tear or accident in the past.

Even brand new car warranty doesn't cover wear and tear.

Having said that, the dealer who sold you the car should have found clutch issues. They are required to replaced worn tires and brake etc under most state laws.

Sucks but it's only a few grand for a nice car. You can go to an independent shop to get the price down.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, I often wonder about buying a used Porsche sight unseen and specifically the clutch wear because it's such an expensive repair.

There seem to be a lot of questionable dealers out there. Just yesterday I was looking at the PCNA website and searching for used 911 turbos. I figured a Porsche dealer would be a better place to look than a 'normal' used car dealer and besides I had good luck in purchasing my last turbo from a P dealership.

Anyhow I came across a (non CPO) 2008 Turbo listed as such:

---------------------------------------------
http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/usa/...&pnr_=1&lnr_=2

19" Turbo wheels
Carbon Package
Deletion of model designation
Fire extinguisher
Footrest in Aluminum
Heated Seats
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB)

Red Taillights
Sport Chrono Package Turbo
Standard Seats
Thicker Steering Wheel in Leather
Tiptronic S
Two-tone leather interior

and the ad....

"Must See, Non Smoker, 911 Turbo, 5-Speed Automatic with Tiptronic S, AWD, Terracotta w/Special Leather Seat Trim, and Navigation System. Barrels of fun! Looking for a great deal on a stunning-looking and fun 2008 Porsche 911? Well, we've got it. J.D. Power and Associates gave the 2008 911 5 out of 5 Power Circles for Overall Initial Quality Design. This fantastic 911 is one HOT car looking for a love connection."
----------------------------------------------
Seems decent and a good price at $69K but the carfax tells a different story. Airbag deployed and car had to be towed. Yes, I understand the sometimes questionable carfax but a deployed airbag is not a fender bender.

How can a Porsche dealer offer this car for sale on their lot? Seems crazy to me. I've also seen CPO Porsches with accidents on the PCNA site - maybe they were fender benders.

===============================================
CARFAX REPORT
Accident reported
Involving front impact
With another motor vehicle
Front area primarily damaged
Vehicle towed
Front airbag deployed

Have used my CPO warranty several times on my 08 Cayman S and never had an issue. Recently a piece of time around the engine broke. That was not covered by warrant but the dealer told me I had one Good Will option to use so I did. You might want to ask your dealer if the Good Will option can be used to repair you clutch.

I've owned a CPO car that had a small fender bender before the dealer 'certified' it. I know of one other that got 'certified' after a major accident that needed about $20k of repairs!

I guess they just look at the CPO checklist items and nothing else!

As my my post says, Porsche stated explicitly that Porsche Certified is an option offered to dealers. Of course there are crappy dealers (Isringhausen), but like most owners on this forum, I've owned a series of expensive German cars. This is my first Porsche and my first used late model car in 30 years. From a business perspective, I expect Porsche to do more to protect the integrity of the program (and the Porsche name) against shady dealer practices. It's simply good business. If "Porsche Certified" loses credibility, as evidenced by the responses in this thread, then resale value declines, which hurts sales, and used Porsche profits for dealers. Mercedes and BMW would discipline dealers.

By the way, I've set up a web site to document stories of people like me that have been burned buying a Porsche Certified car. No rants or offensive language, just a calm recitation of facts. Leaving it online and calling attention to it s the best way to pressure Porsche to begin to police the program better.

I haven't formatted it yet, but I will in the next week or so; www.porschecertifiedisajoke.com

Please message me if you want me to add a story. Story, initials and town are all I need.

Au contraire; I don't expect a car that needs a clutch repair to be certified in the first place, any more than they would certify a car with bald tires. That's quite different from wearing out a clutch and then expecting it to be repaired.

The sad part in my case was that since the dealer has no way to determine if the clutch is shot (other than slippage, which mine had none, or removing the trans), It fell upon me to have to prove I did not cause the wear. If I had not been able to prove it, I would have been SOL.

Do you know who owned the car before you purchase it? It may have been someone who was very hard on the clutch. I spoke with my dealers Service Rep today and he confirmed that unless the clutch is slipping they have no way of telling that the clutch is bad during the inspection program they run to give the car its CPO. I know in the case of my dealer if they knew a clutch was bad they would not CPO the car unless they repaired it. Anything that is considered wear and tear is not cover by either the original warranty or the CPO warranty. I just purchased a 2011 Boxter Sypder which has a CPO warranty that runs through April 2016. When I was detailing the car, I noticed that the mud guard on the passenger side was chewed up. When I contacted the Service Department they told me that was not cover because it is considered wear and tear. Granted it is a low cost item but it is still not covered. Since I just purchased the car on Memorial Day, the Sales Department paid for the replacement. Bottom line if the dealer was not aware of the clutch issue at the time of CPO certification there is nothing they can do unless they do it under your one time Good Will program.

This "One Time Goodwill" thing, I find interesting. I have never heard of it. I have had many things repaired under the goodwill label by the Porsche dealer(s), and there was never an official limit to the quantity. Is this something new, or just something a dealer said to limit demands on it for freebees?

Can't really say. When I had the problem with the trim ring that holds the engine carpet in place I was told that it was not covered by warranty but I could have one Good Will repair and we could use it for this so I said okay.

No idea about the previous owner. And as I stated, it only slipped under hard acceleration. However, whether the dealer missed it or not shouldn't be my problem. The symptom manifested itself immediately.

Have you asked the dealer about the Good Will option? Do you think they are dragging their feet because they did not sell you the car? I think if you had you might be in a better position with the dealer. The customer service at my dealer has been outstanding. Hope you get things worked out soon. Good luck.