HC,
The 7GT3 has treaded front and rear struts and the ride height can be easily changed. All 911 varients are ride height sensitive and lowering the front without scales can really screw up the handling. Sometimes they come this way from the factory but my guess for the press it looks kuhl to have a lower ride height in front. The car was a handful for Sam and Milian said the RS he drove felt planted. Somebody screwed with the suspension. Would it pick up four seconds? I don't think so. Out.
Jimmy

 

I think it would pick up 4 seconds. And have been in the 1:33's.

The only thing I know for certain is that 1:37 isnt anywhere near it's potential in pro hands.

 

I was doing 1:37 in my CLS550. The guy who is testing both cars is a tool. Clearly has no idea how to drive a Porsche. I have no idea why any of these car mags just get a pro driver to test these cars. I am sure you all saw my posts back in november when Craig Stanton drove my turbo which has mods. The mods are Fabspeed exhaust and ECU. The ECU apparently had been reseted back to stock. So the only mod I had was the exhaust. Anyways he did a 1;32.5 not even pushing it. He has done 1:32 's in a stock turbo. I am itching to do my own comparison. All I need is a GTR. I have the turbo and Craig would be more than happy to drive. Anybody up for the challenge?

 

The OP should be.


But then again, he has this bogus test to hang his hat on, so may not be interested.

 

Well stated. The GTR is a great car but I just laugh when I see these preposterous comparos and all the name dropping of "record breaking" drivers.

The 997 GT3 is a sub 1:30 car on Willow Springs even on a 100 degree day.

Tell you what, get factory driver from Porsche and factory driver from Nissan and rerun this test. Suspect results will be completely different.

 

Agree 100%, one thing to point out Craig is pretty much a factory driver for Porsche, all we need now is someone from Nissan.

 

I do have to say that Nissan gets some wicked power out of that turbo V6 motor. Its clearly making more than published HP. The GT3 is likely down 100 HP or more from GTR.

More relevant test would be GT2 vs GTR on Willow Springs since it is a power course.

Curious what kind of gas were they using in the test posted in this post? High octane fuel with turbo would offer even more of an advantage. I know my turbo powered car picks up at least 15 HP when I use 103 octane. Naturally aspirated cars like GT3 arent going to get as much of a boost.

 

Given the driving talent on this board Sam Hubinette ought to hang up his helmet OR the example of the GT3 was totally set up wrong which is more likely the case. You'll notice that there was no camera through the fast part of the course turn 8 which would really put all this controversy to rest as the car would be so loose Sam wouldn't be able to hold the line. Millen said the RS felt planted where it's clear the GT3 was a happy tail wagger.

For a comparison Road & Track (DEC 08 )went 1:33 with Millen driving a 7GT3RS. The only stock production car tested by the Mags that has broken the 1:30 is the Viper ACR.
So for the GT3 to get to these numbers (sub1:32s) it will require some serious suspension tuning, better tires and a lot more rear wing. At that point the car is totally undriveable without a kidney belt on the street. Opinions welcome.
Jimmy

 

Sam is not bad, but remember these guys cant go all out and hopping from one car to the next, they are just driving fast smooth laps. I'm sure they could trim lots of time off if they'd like.

I've driven 7/10ths behind Randy Pobst in a 997 S at a PCA DE. I could have passed him at will and got a few point by's but I wanted to study his line. I've seen him at DE's driving times that I could hop in the same car and trim 5-6 seconds from easily, but I know he's not trying to go fast. I think many of these mag comparos are the same, they are just driving average paced laps, not the all out laps of someone who owns the car and is trying to beat the next guy.

I'd bet you that Graig Stanton can go sub 1:30 in a STOCK GT3. Someone make it happen. Millen has proven he's not very good in high powered RWD cars. Look at his times from other tests. He'll star in the GT-R and then is slower than average mag journalists when he hops in the Z06. Either he's scared or sandbagging.

 

I can get Craig to do it in a heart beat. Just get me a GTR.

 

Back from thanksgiving holidays, hope everyone had a relaxing vacation.

I'll try my best to provide clarity to the comments below.

I hate to dispell the magic, but the only camera shots taken during the actual timing are those inside the car where the camera runs continuously. Close up shots driving shots were obtained by a chase car. We would do 1-2 camera laps (chase cars and corner cameras), 2-3 hot laps, then change equipment and cars.

My understanding from the owner is the GT3 was prepared the same way as it was when it won the La Carrera in 2007, with the exception that the interior is still in place. (interior was removed for the 2007 race).

Under a similar regime the tires looked okay. I asked COBB what their experience was with tracking GT-Rs and they said the weak link is the factory rotors tend to warp. The only problem they had with tires was lack of a 20" R-compound that maintained facotory suspension geometry (Though Toyo is coming out with 20" R888 for next year)

Just to split hairs a 7:29 is a *smaller* margin of victory for a GT-R than a 1:32 is.

putting a GT3 aside for a moment and talking GT2,
Same day same driver Road and Track put up a 1:31.23 for the GT-R vs. 1:33.57 for the GT2. On a 2.5 Mile course that's a 0.94 Seconds/mile advantage. But you already identified that Willow might favor a GT-R anyways given the track conditions and altitude. Different days, different drivers, the Nur times are 7:29.03 for the GT-R and 7:32.02 for GT2. which is a significantly smaller 0.23 Seconds/mile advantage. so it appears to me that the Willow times are far more impressive, but you're probably right about the altitude and track conditions favoring the GT-R and adding to the delta.


All cars were driven as the owners brought them. the owner of the 7GT3 said it was the same set-up as La Carrera, though I do not know if he meant ride height as well. Both the front and rear of that car are very low, but I don't know enough about 997 suspension tuning to know if that was right or wrong.

In point of fact Sam is a Pro and draws 100% of his livelyhood driving for Dodge. In his defense though he had minimal time in all 8 cars that day and could have generated better times from all of them.

Love to get out there after Christmas, happy to swap cars and try each other's out, don't expect any track records from me though.
The GT-R makes about 420 at the wheel on average. The advanatage is actually the AWD system. You can punish the throttle pre-apex and the car jsut swings through completely composed. You don't have to accelerate as hard if you don't have to brake as hard (Even more true in my e46 M3).
See Above for results. I agree with the above though that turn 8 favors the GT-R's AWD system.


94 Octane for the GT-R in the Head to Head test. I talked to an editor at Hachette and they told me they used 91 for their test where the GT-R did a 1:31.23. The GT-R makes about 380WHP on 91 Octane vs 422WHP on 94.


Track wouldn't let us set up a camera there for safety reasons (high speeds)
The only filming you see in the video (generally true of all productions BTW) is beauty shots not shot on the hot lap. The hot lap filming is only the internal cameras. For hot laps it's dangerous to have camera guys on corners, external camera mounts and chase cars on track.

Anyhow I hoped that cleared up any questions. This has been very valuable feedback that we'll take into Season 3 of Head to Head I'm sure.

 

In talking to a few WSIR regulars they see times around 1:27 in Street GT3's on Pilot Sports. Sam had more than just a bad day if he truly could only muster a 1:36. Unfortunately I suspect this test was nothing more than "good" TV. I still want to see a good head to head test with good drivers who understand how to drive these cars.

Anyone able to arrange this?

 

nice beat

 

I hate to say I told you so, but like I said, the GT3 is faster than any TTA car. PERIOD, and by a good few seconds with a good driver.

Like I said, I know he's not ***** out, but he should be able to be in the ballpark if the car is ok. That one was not.

Like I also said, give me a day or two in a GT3 at WSIR and I'd be going a good bit faster than that 1:37 in no time. Even in 100*.



Oh and for the last time, the ring time for the GT-R is bogus, and there is no chance the GT-R is faster on that track than the GT2. Millen is a nissan sandbagging pr guy.

 

I call BS on 1:27 with stock street GT3. Maybe they were refereing to GT3 CUP Cars. I've seen and timed James Sofronas in the GMG 650 hp GT2 at 1:28.s. Cort Wagner in my 630hp Andial 3.8 is at 1:27.7 with Hoosiers. Vison Motorsports says it's possible to get a 7GT3 under 1:30 with Motons, Hoosiers sprrings and PERFECT CONDITIONS. You may get one or two hero laps at 1:30's with the stock factory tires before they go off with a porsche hot shoe like say... Walter Rohl.

I just finished at track day today and none of the street Gt3 were remotely close to any sub 1:32s and James and GMG were there with their stable of cars. EVOsport had a 6gt3 Cup that was 1:27! I'm a pretty regular driver at WSIR and have yet to see a stock 7Gt3 break 1:33's.
Jimmy