^Great example, now how about some insight from the pros (EPL)?

 

who did the install ?

 

I was the one who asked why the power fell off so quickly.

From what I have seen on almost all 996 turbo's is their stock head/cam setup is made for more bottom end torque and not top end power.

If you look at 3,000rpm for example, most 996 turbos are making 300+ wtq. The M3 in the example is well below 300wtq at 3,000rpm. As another example, my supra only makes around 200wtq at 3,000rpm.

Another point I noticed is that even though this specific 996 turbo made 170wtq more than my Supra at peak (490wtq vs. 660wtq), it only makes 85wtq more from 5,700 to 6,700 (where the cars would operate during max acceleration). Just another example of how the 996 turbo is built for torque, not top end power.

With that said, I would much rather give up some top end flow for bottom end torque as long as I can still have 600+whp and 600+wtq.

Most of us drive in the 1,500rpm to 4,000rpm range anyway.

Just an outsider looking in.
Steve

 

Just to respond to a few points...

My friend and I did the install on the meth and it was tuned by Dave @ EPL.

Marksi fuel pump kit and EPL 72s are doing work. Duty cycle is awesome.

As far as the power graph goes - thats how Tony wanted it. After the cooldown the car spun on the dyno so we didnt even get the highest cooled down dyno pull. Tony said that was 645+ pull

Just a note about these turbos, they CAN keep going up in power. Waaaaayyy up in power. You get to a point where you have to make a decision whether you want your setup to last or to get some additional power. On this dyno 645awhp is nearly doubling the awhp of a stock 996tt 330awhp, that puts my car right over 800 crank hp and 850 crank torque. My goal this time around was 625awhp and Tony got a bit more out of it.

Sticking to 800 crank is a personal theory backed by advice from Tony@EPL, Jake@Tial, Markski@911Tuning. Usually I would say "I'd love to get some more out of it" but this will be fast enough for me for a while.

Sometime within next month I'll pull the driveshaft and go get some glory Dynojet runs since that is what everyone (including me ) is used to. I expect the #s to be right around 700rwhp.

Lastly I want to thank everyone who helped with the build, parts aquisition, installation and tuning. This weekend was a bit of scramble trying to get everything buttoned up and ready for tune date, but it all worked out and I'm happy.

 

LOLOLOL you are comparing a completely different car on a different dyno. I can tell you this much - RWD on a dynojet my setup will match those peak #s in each category (pump, pump n meth... etc). BUT i will also have a mountain of torque and the area under the curve will like a football field compared to a basketball court.

 

Prodigymb,

No offense, but if you're racing the M3, it is going to have an the advantage.

You're making an average of approx. 535wtq from 5,500rpm to 7,000rpm and the above M3 is making an average of approximately 560wtq from 6,500rpm to 8,000rpm. This may be offset by the difference in dyno's but the M3 has a gearing advantage that would give him the win.

Plus the M3 is making over 500wtq for approximately 3,500rpm's.

From a reliability stand point, I'll take the 911 over the M3 any day.

Later, Steve

 

Once again you are comparing Dynojet numbers to Mustang numbers. Add 10-12% to my numbers and you will get Dynojet #s

No offense taken. Here is the last HPF M3 that attempted me when i had 200whp less then i do now. Let me know if you find that "advantage" you are talking about in the video. Oo and I was RWD then so only 3.9 0-60, now I'm awd so I do 3.5s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLDVOp77DLc

 

There's more to it than just the numbers. The HPF M3's are traction limited, best evidenced by the fact that they are still trying to break into the 10's in the quarter-mile. None-the-less, both are very impressive products.

 

Tire on side of the car after last pull...

 

at no point throughout this entire thread did the OP ever say he was racing an m3, an e46 m3 was brought into discussion by another poster whom has 0 clue as to what he is talking about. He brings in a comparison video never in question and not in the same realm, this thread, I believe was to show the dyno numbers and improvements from one turbo set to another.

 

Accepted--on average dynojet gives higher hp numbers. However, curve shape should be similar. Forget about the M3 example, just using that as an example of increasing power to redline. Sounds like you and your tuner decided to tune it down after 5500 rather than being limited by the set-up?? That was my question all along, not to be overly critical, but to understand the limitations. It's still not clear. Steve says it's the 996 yet you say it's the tuning. The Evoms dyno achieves peak tq at 4100 (650) and yours at 4500 (650), yet Evoms keeps going up but they use GT turbo, not Alphas. GT turbos hit harder and put more out at top end.

 

keep in mind his motor is stock, pushing the torque # higher is going to bend things, if they arent beginning to bend already (not saying your car is shot OP, dont take it as such). This is my debate also, what are truly the numbers our motors can handle safely and for more than 10k miles.

 

these are GT turbos, with turbine housings to allow them to bolt on to a Porsche

there is no sense to tune for more on the car because the power level it's at now it at the limit and it happens to make that limit very early in the power band...so instead of having the power band continue upwards tony held it flat to maintain.

the turbos themselves are far from their limit

 

I appreciate the concern for rod stressing so that's completely understandable. But that's usually more of an issue at the lower end with huge tq numbers but always a worry on stock motor. With knocking, however, all bets are off. While the alpha turbos are good, they are definitely not the end all. The fact that they bolt right on is really great and why people get them but they do seem to lose a lot up top.

 

once again, you got alot of research to do. EvoMS uses Tial Alpha turbos. Look at their website. They always have used Tial turbos even before Alphas came out. to answer your original question, yes these turbos still have alot of headroom and can make another 150-200whp on a built motor. on my car i had a number in mind that i wanted to get to which was 625 and thats what we went for since that is what we were both comfortable at.

here is a car they did on 109 and meth with a tad more boost.