I have been seeing a slight shift to E85 in Porsche drivers lately. Mainly you dragsters, but, I have considered this conversion for some time now.


I have had some questions and concerns since this thought,


1) I understand that the 997.1 fuel pumps and lines are adequate for E85 flow.

2) Larger injectors and ECU map will need to be changed.

3) How does everyone feel about the residue buildup from E85? I know some feel good about running a tank of 91 octane to "burn" the film off twice a year. (I don't know how many miles that are actually driven between cycles.)

4) Any pump issues with pre filter clogging? Is there excessive heat to the pump, leading to pump failure or either pump fuses blown?

5) How often should the oil be changed (5W50) with this alcohol mixture (1,500 mi?)

6) Do ambient air temps / humidity play an affect with fuel system functionality?

7) Does anyone add an additive to their E85 for substitution of the 91 cycle?

8) Separation of the E85 fuel content is a concern. What time period is safe with E85 prior to its unstable state of separation. (I don't drive my car every week.)


I mainly use my car at the track. At a mile high, a cooler flame / lower boost may help create a more level power band with a less sudden "turbo kick in."


Dragging this setup wouldn't concern me as much but, tracking this setup with extreme heat, altitude and the reliable endurance did raise a few of these questions.


So in either Scenario, what are your "Tips or Consequences" to this conversion?

 

nice thread! I think a lot of people can benefit from this thread if they ever had questions or doubts about the E85 conversion!

 

Agreed! I have posted on several threads and also asked the question about the effects of alcohol with all of the aluminum and plastics and rubbers in the lines that are not designed for alcohol.

As many may know..alcohol and aluminum are not a good combination. And if the rubber and plastics in the fuel lines start breaking down, the pieces get lodged in the injector and other parts of the system.

I have never seen or received a good answer to those questions...or even an answer at all.

What I have received are generic comments.."It is fine"..."we have seen no issues"...That type of info.

I would be interested to know if there are any real examples of cars running E85 over time, that are subsequently torn down and checked to see the effects?? That would be good empirical information..

Good questions..and good thread!

DC

 

I think the only issues ppl seen (mainly on other platforms) is the fact that E85 cleans out the residue build up from crappy 91/93 and it might clog fuel filters.

I DD my car and plan to do oil at half the intervall to compensate for the E85, not sure on how much blow-by I have etc so better safe than sorry...

E85 is a very common fuel here in Sweden, by law every gas station must sell it in the entire country, not heard of anything else than fuel filters clogging due to residue from the 91/93 and to do more frequent oil changes.

I ran a E85 mixed with 94 tune on my BMW for 2yrs without any issues (or any hw changes at all).

I heard some tuners trying to scare of ppl from E85, but as Protomotive and Cobb showed, its amazing

 

Hi Tony, Thanks for your help and input.


I understand that elevation creates an issue while tuning a car for e85. Would it be safe to say that E85 tunes are not suitable for extreme elevation changes? For example, a quick cruise from 5,280 ft. to 13,000ft. will cause idle issues?


Good advice on the fuel filters and oil change. Last season, I changed the oil around the 1000mi mark. I thought I may have been changing it to frequent. Guess its just cheap insurance.

 

Hey Rock and kchu221, thanks!


Rock, regarding your question about the corrosion state of E85 on the fuel systems components. I came across this article.


http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/...d-rubbers.html


I was investigating the anodizing process as, I anodized titanium weekly and couldn't comprehend how this could help.


Maybe the color reflection from the anodizing disguises some of the debris floating around.?

 

I want to update this thread. I can only post on my physical experience. I made the deep conversion. It truly is a conversion. I actually ran out of gas in the process trying to follow its conversion process. (Its really not that exact BWT.) ProdigyMB may be able to help with the exact ratios. He was somewhat of a mentor in my decision. Thank you.

I'm going to reply to my own questions with my own personal experience here,


1) They are.. You will need to upgrade your Injectors to at least 1000CC for the increased flow demand.


2) Yes, Injector size will need to be increased and the ECU will need to be altered to accommodate for this.


3) Still not sure on the oil film build up. If I change to a new map, (91) does this really rejuvenate my fuel lines and rid me of any issues? If I change to a new method, I want to stick with it.
What I still don't understand though, Does the oil residue come from the "ethanol" or the "gas?"? I think I can answer this one.


4) I am sure that their is excessive heat due to the increased fuel flow. This hasn't proposed a problem with my current tune or setup. I haven't pushed it though. So far no filter clog nor fuses blown.


5) Oil, appeared watery to me but, I have never changed my oil at 300 mi. I had a recent conversation with a friend (also a member) that recently overhauled his engine and, his oil change represented the same fluidity. He could only compare from his visual intake on my drain compared to his.


6) Yes, I reside at a high altitude. Humidity is low but, the elevation is high. E85 tends to absorb air moisture. I haven't yet seen the affects of air precipitation on this setup though. On thing to keep in mind is, Seasonal change on ethanol content. I ran an untested (at least E70 from a pump) and found that it sucks, I didn't feel good about pushing the car and felt some knock.



7) No, you idiot. research the compensation of this fuel. You truly have no idea what the hellll your talking about. Question, what do you actually think that E85 consist of? Answer, 85 ethonal, with 15 of gasoline. E90 is better after evaluation of pump test. Pump test is easily conducted by a graduated cylinder.


8) I don't have this answer yet. Have some bench testing in effect with this type of testing. Only time can tell. 2 weeks don't show much at this altitude.


Please contribute! If you read above and have an input, help this forum on this topic!


Based on this summary, you need to know (Cobb) Mitch and Jon! Prodigymb is also a great source and wealth of info.

 

Should show the car is a bit faster than before on pump gas haha.

Glad you are enjoying it keep us posted on how it does this weekend!

Thanks Ryan,

-Mitch

 

Gas for E85 30% more consumption




Specs of paint or rust in fuel.







Update: Car is and is still doing well. After taking two cars to the track, (one for gas, one to track,) Car ran well. Had a slight hiccup prior to my morning run but, managed to fix everything prior to the afternoon run.


E85 at the track;

Runs Very Well.


Last year, I pushed this car hard on 100 oct. (different tune) prior to the longest stretch, I was hitting 140mph by the end. This year with this new tune while cornering very conservatively, I was hitting 150mph. This is consistent with the logging ability I have with Cobb's accessport.


I am looking forward to my next track event when I actually can push the car through the turns like last season. I have better tires this year while being strapped in tight with Hans and 6 point harness. This currently gives me a much more "fear factor" for some odd reason to take it much slower, even though in the end, I happen to be moving faster.


I did notice some specks within a few gas cans. I have never evaluated my prior gas to E85 to see this. Inside the gas can you can see specks. I have a spare fuel filter that I will throw in this coming weekend, I plan on cutting the old one apart to see what it really filtered.

 

Thanks for the update!

DC

 

Only thing about E85 is I wish we had it everywhere.

 

Glad things are still good Ryan!

Please let us know if you need anything at all!

-Mitch

 

Move to Sweden, every gas station has E85 (required by law to sell renewable fuel)...

Income tax is bad though, like really bad...

 

I guess "Tonys" quote on filter change holds true with my gas input evaluation.


"A 2500 miles fuel filter on an e85 conversion car looks like a 25000 mile fuel filter on a similar gas car. "


I wouldn't have noticed the specks of debris unless I looked into the ethonal can.


I have near 1K miles and will post the filter results once I have them. I think this may be a good point to "pre-filter" your e85 gas. This gas happens to be E90 consistently.


Maybe this issue is with the pump I use. I will try a few other stations that I know rate E86.

 

E85 = car platinum.... epic stuff, C16 performance for 1/8th the cost