997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
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997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
This is about the same as Steve Millen beating the TT and Z06 by 5 seconds at Willow Springs, and then Steve Millen beating the GT2 at other places. But still some reocurring themes in there.
1) Nissan tests for 7-8 months with several drivers,
2) During all that time, the best lap, which is a quite a bit faster than the rest, comes in at 7:38, a week or two before release coincidentally
3) Best lap in 8 months is said to have taken place on track with partially wet spots on it, and two weeks prior to release.
4) Nissan goes back to testing after release, claims they are "tweaking" the car for different markets
5) Nissan comes out 9 seconds faster.
6) Horst Von Suarma, ring expert and driver for Sport Auto doesnt think even the 7:38 is possible after doing a lap similar to the one he did in the Z06 which he got 7:49 and getting a 7:50.
7) Porsche tests the car, vs TT and GT2 and mash it with both on the euro MPSC which are crap. And it's the US model GT-R which is supposed to have all the "tweaks".
8) Not the first time Nissan have been caught lying and/or cheating.
Ole Heavychevy isnt the only one refusing to drink the Kool-Aid.
I fully expect 10-12 noobs and regular GT-R fanboys to make this a 30 page thread. So have at it.
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__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
See Evo and Car magazine for details.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-30-2008 at 02:00 AM.
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
I am sure the results are 100% correct. GTR was slower then 911TT and GT2 when driven by Porsche engineer. But I have to ask you, what incentive does Porsche engineer have to drive GTR at its limit, possibly beating his own creations?
Would you guys have believed the story if it was the other way around?
One positive note is that Porsche is taking on the competition seriously. This is good news for the next generation 911TT.
I am sure the results are 100% correct. GTR was slower then 911TT and GT2 when driven by Porsche engineer. But I have to ask you, what incentive does Porsche engineer have to drive GTR at its limit, possibly beating his own creations?
Would you guys have believed the story if it was the other way around?
One positive note is that Porsche is taking on the competition seriously. This is good news for the next generation 911TT.
As far as incentive, what incentive would Nissan test guys have to drive the TT at 10/10ths when they were testing?? Same difference. You want to know realistically which is better. It was pretty smart of Porsche to buy the US model too, the updated stuff, many of which are trapping 114, not 121 and nothing resembing a 124.
I think he has more at stake to put it out there, considering the media hype. If he had beat them both in the GT-R, he'd have kept his mouth shut. But it seems as though he wasnt the only guy there and several guys have this question. Incuding Horst.
It's out there now though, and he had to know it would get out. So we'll see how they repsond. I'm sure the press will be all over this one.
The story has been the other way around, Nissan tested the TT and GT-R at two tracks in the states, and the TT and GT-R were a dead heat, while the TT was on lesser PS2's. So put it on option Sport Cups, and the results make more sense.
I dont think the guy was tooling around in the GT-R, obviously not at 7:54, I'm sure it's faster than that (A STOCK ONE!!!!!!!!), in a test drivers hands, but obviously so is the TT.
I wonder if Porsche will release said time as official, or if Walter will return in all three with a rented track. I told you the traffic makes a difference. There is a lot to play out, but if Porsche stands behind this, I see a head to head in the near future.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
See Evo and Car magazine for details.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-30-2008 at 03:56 AM.
The story has been the other way around, Nissan tested the TT and GT-R at two tracks in the states, and the TT and GT-R were a dead heat, while the TT was on lesser PS2's. So put it on option Sport Cups, and the results make more sense.
snip
Uhhhh ... nissan never undermined Walter's 997 Ring times in the way Porsche just did with the GT-R.
But regardless, it's funny how convenient (for porsche) these times are.
7:34 GT2
7:38 997TT
^
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^
^
^
^
^
7:54 GT-R ("The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words":angel:aka"lol just A Nissan LOL")
but in the end, all they did with this pointless accusation is generating more hype and media attention around the GT-R.
Meanwhile more European, Japanese and American tests coming in with the GT-R beating 997 toptiers.
That accusation is utterly laughable. The people at Porsche are making fools of themselves with this nonsense. Why don't they just go out and make a faster car, instead of bitching, moaning, and whining about the past?
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
This is about the same as Steve Millen beating the TT and Z06 by 5 seconds at Willow Springs, and then Steve Millen beating the GT2 at other places. But still some reocurring themes in there.
1) Nissan tests for 7-8 months with several drivers,
2) During all that time, the best lap, which is a quite a bit faster than the rest, comes in at 7:38, a week or two before release coincidentally
3) Best lap in 8 months is said to have taken place on track with partially wet spots on it, and two weeks prior to release.
4) Nissan goes back to testing after release, claims they are "tweaking" the car for different markets
5) Nissan comes out 9 seconds faster.
6) Horst Von Suarma, ring expert and driver for Sport Auto doesnt think even the 7:38 is possible after doing a lap similar to the one he did in the Z06 which he got 7:49 and getting a 7:50.
7) Porsche tests the car, vs TT and GT2 and mash it with both on the euro MPSC which are crap. And it's the US model GT-R which is supposed to have all the "tweaks".
8) Not the first time Nissan have been caught lying and/or cheating.
Ole Heavychevy isnt the only one refusing to drink the Kool-Aid.
I fully expect 10-12 noobs and regular GT-R fanboys to make this a 30 page thread. So have at it.
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Great find and I see it's already been cross posted to rennteam.
Car companies doctor cars for ring times -- true, including Porsche. But if you exaggerate to the point of incomprehensibility, you will force people to expose it.
For those not familiar with ring times: Nissan GT-R is a very good car and very well engineered, but to claim a near 4000 lbs (!!) behemoth, made with "great, for the price" in mind (dealy qualification), to make 7:29 in stock form is to show how desperate one is.
Remember this is a good car company, my favorite of the Japanese corps, but it's being squeezed from every direction (by Toyata/Lexus, Honda/Acura, & BMW) in its major market, the US. Re-writing the law of physics (7:29 with stock 4000 lbs GT-R) is not something it is capable of.
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Can
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At this point it has been shown outside of factory drivers that in equal hands the GT-R is faster on most circuits than the TT. It is not that big of a deal because in the real world it is going to come down to the driver.
There is (1) known motor in the ATL, GA area that has blown - no warranty. Call up Regal Nissan if they will tell you.
There are (2) known transmissions are toast - no warranty. One posted on here and the other was the blown motor as well with Regal Nissan.
Things happen and no one claims perfect cars on either side.
But if you are going to create a everymans supercar - wouldn't you think you would also put the cost of maitenance at the price point you are trying to market to?
5-6K - Brakes - no options at the moment but rotor/brake pad replacement combo.
1-1.5K - Fluid Changes - Every 1800Km if you race the car.
Oil Changes of $240-$300
Motor is around 60K at the moment
Transmission is around 12-18K? or is that more?
Tires are special to the Nissan and is around $2000-$2500?
The car is a bargain for the performance that you get no doubt. But the upkeep is catered to those who buy this car as a weekender or as 2nd or 3rd car. For the everyman that it is catering to it is not their car. The upkeep costs so far will keep many people from A) driving to its full potential and B) looking at other cars.
I don't care about the HP claims, etc. I saw one(stock) dynoed at 440awd HP. What does that translate to? Why I ask this is because of the claimed 10% drivetrain loss nissan claims? What are the real numbers?
To those who tout the M-Moss Act to protect them it won't. There are enough specifics in the warranty disclosures to back Nissan up. The M-Moss Act was designed to protect vagueness of a warranty claim not the specifics of one. They are specifically telling you not to do something. If you lay out details about what you will not cover then the ACT doesn't come down and rescue you.
Here is something interesting I found out about the new PDK with Porsche.
If you continually use the launch feature of the PDK in the new 09 Porsche cars it will continue to deminish the effectiveness of the launch as the temps rise in the fluids. Thus not allowing you to beat the crap out of it. Why doesn't Nissan with all the High-Tech things they have installed on this car use this feature?
It is like hanging out Pamela Andersons Boob and saying you can only touch one but if you touch both of them we will slap your hand and take it away.
Why not build this feature into the GT-R to protect the transmission to also preserve any intense warranty claims resulting from the Launches. People will launch these cars no doubt.
This is not bashing on the GT-R - as I don't care about ring times as I can't drive it that fast and 99% of the people on here never will either.
Again, the point is: Fast, but not that fast. And not 7:29 at the ring. No 4000 lbs (slight exaggeration ) car does that.
Everyone doctors the cars, but Nissan in its desperation went for broke and now is being exposed.
__________________
Regards,
Can
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coincidentally
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) car does that.
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