Thanks for your input, but dwelling twenty years in the past is not my cup of tea. I want a car that's 10 years ahead of the game not 20 years behind. For those that continue to dwell in the past, my advice to them is to get over it.

As far as posters being more knowledgeable before posting here, it's apparent that you are new in here. Just hang around a while and you will see all the BS flying around with some admittedly knowledgeable posts in between. But it's all in good fun. And of course, welcome to the forum.

 

Yes, above were indeed the qualities that I was looking for in a car, hence the decision to purchase the 991. For those looking for a more raw experience the gt3 should be out soon enough.

 

no one mentions Brakes and suspension difference in S and Base, potentially more important than all other things outside a straight line.

 

Actually, if you'll notice, I joined in November of 2009 - two years before you. There's a big difference between living in the past and respecting the past. I do think the folks at Porsche go out of their way to respect the past while still trying to keep up with the modern sportscar genre. It is a difficult game they play.

The point of my original post, which I stand by, is that the numbers within a range are meaningless. Turn off all the electronic gizmos (if that's even possible) and see how far you get. It's great that a car can have 400-500 peak hp, but physics is still physics and that much power can easily exceed the limits of tire/chassis technology without electronics to control it. At some point, it becomes a video game where you can't lose. The greater the electronic wizardry, the less the driver is involved.

Learning to drive and drive well is not living in the past. It's timeless.

 

Good point. Unlike the 997.2, there is a big difference in the brakes on the 991 S vs. base with the S having 6 pot calipers up front - sadly all 991 calipers are closed back now - no easy track day pad swaps anymore.

But on the original topic of lukewarm review of the 3.4, I'd bet the PDK is the culprit. At my dealer's launch party they blasted down the road with an S and the PDK shifts sounded like farts. It's an incredible transmission - for an automated shift, but exciting or soulful it's not.

As for the 3.4 engine, its down on torque just a tad from the 3.6 DFI, but more importantly the peak torque is much higher up the clock. The 5 additional hp is effectively irrelevant. It allows Porsche to claim its more powerful than its predecessor (but in real world driving it isn't - as EVO discovered). Cars that NEED to be revved (M3 V8 and M5 V10 come to mind) are IMHO potentially more hazardous on the road, because, like a rice rocket bike, they ask for the driver to bury the throttle for extended periods of time as the engine revs. Some may disagree, but to me a quick blast in a 911 up to 50 from a stop sign as opposed to an M5 streaking from 50 to 120 is more 'prudent' fun on the road. So the 3.4 probably isn't any more fun than the old 3.6, then detract a bit for the electronic steering (which is simply the way of the future - get used to it) and then take a pinch of front end bob out of the equation and you're left with a car that's less fun than the 997. A better car yes (I've been in it), but perhaps less of an 'event' to drive.

I think a greater gap between the base 991 and the S was a good move on Porsche's part.

I'd like to see a review on a 991 manual 3.4 against the competition.

Regards,
DR.

 

This is nothing but classic, and I do mean classic, interwebs trolling.

I will sit this one out in my '996 with a mere 42k miles on it and laugh at the arm chair quarterbacking. (Those with knowledge and actual track seat time, I tip my hat to.)

 

I have a 2.7 Cayman (245 hp !!) which was in the same price range as the base Corvette circa 2008, that had (and has) many more ponies than my 987, along with a lot more weight. I've driven the Vette extensively thanks to an opportunity to rent a C6 in California a few years back. Nice noise, nice street presence, endless torque and rocket-sled acceleration, but what would you rather take out on a twisty 2-lane???

That said, I have to agree that with the 911, the "purists" are not going to go with the base model or even the S model. The rich purists will wait for the new GT3 and Turbo. The not-so-rich purists will wait for the new GT3 and Turbo and then find a used 996 or 997 version of the GT3 and Turbo that will have magically depreciated. And the true purists like their cars air-cooled.......

 

A friend of mine was testing this for an article he's writing and took me for a drive. I honestly still way prefer the Cayman to the 991 (just feels more alive) but that's personal. Not a knock against the 991 if that's what you like (it is much faster). BTW, Sport Exhaust is incredible on the 991. It completely transforms the experience.

Took the cover off inside the front hatch. Wonder if that black thing in the lower left hand side is the new electric steering:

 

I am with you . It is a 2 door panamera for the masses but looking much better i am happy to say.

 

Good post, well said.

 

Nice one from Joepack. That obviously begs the question as to why people still try to squeeze another smidgens of power / handling/ sensation out of their late-model cars and exorbitant cost per incremental result. The law of diminishing returns is blatantly present everywhere. And the answer is.. because we are car guys. Just buy a cart for 10K, a trailer for 2 K and a towing hook and you are in business. And, do take that silly smile of your face when you'are being outclassed and outnumbered by your 125 CC engined pocket rocket.

 

991 = more performance and luxury

997 and previous = more fun (traditional 911 feel)

 

I doubt Porsche would make a new 911 that's less fun than the old one.

The Grand Touring thing has been greatly exaggerated. Go drive a 991 around a track around the street and on the track for a week and tell me if you'd rather have the 997.

 

+1....

 

Of course fun is subjective. You'd have to do a survey to see whether more people find the 997 or 991 more fun. On the road, I'm guessing the 997 would win. On the track, I don't know - could be the 991.

I've tracked the 991 briefly, but it was too slow and brief to judge the car. But I've compared the 997 and 991 on the road back to back many times, at substantial speeds (), and I personally find the 997 to be more fun. It doesn't handle as well, to the extent of sometimes feeling a bit 'scary' compared to the 991, but that's part of the fun, and of course the 997's limits are still very high. Moreover, IMO the 997 communicates more and feels more alive, especially at low to medium speeds, whereas the 991 needs to be going fast to feel alive.

I have exactly the same issue with the Cayman R. The thing is so planted and capable that it feels bored at road speeds, so I feel bored too. But these characteristics are virtues on the track, where the car shines (I've tracked it about 50 days).