991 tires....
 

The 991 (aside from the base car with 19s) seemingly only comes on Pirelli Pzeros - regardless of which country you're in, the engine size, suspension or any other spec.

This begs an interesting question - How will it feel on Pilot Super Sports? (b/c you can damn sure bet those will be the first set of replacements on my car)

I'm not a race car driver, but I have experienced the impact of switching tires on performance road cars. You can really alter stability, turn in response, grip and general steering effort just by changing types of tires.

I'm a huge Michelin fan. Although these Pirellis grip like glue once your in a steady state mid corner, they don't strike me as a particularly sophisticated tire? Tire rack effectively rates the PSS above the Pzero in every category. I'd love to hear from a 991 owner once they go to Michelins. I wouldn't be surprised if the french rubber restores a bit more feeling to the new steering.

P.S. anyone notice there is no curb guard on the rear pirellis? The side wall is totally convex - a bit odd.

Regards,
DRP

It appears the 19s are using Goodyear so count your blessings. Chris Harris has an article in Excellence where he tests a 3.4 with 19s and was not impressed with the tires.

ChuckJ
PS: Aside from the good looks of the Carrera S wheels, one of the reasons I got them was to ensure I would be getting the Pirelli tires

I can speak for the change but not on the 991. I have an RS60 with PASM sport and ceramics and this car has been so stuck to the ground with it's original Bridgestones that it could make you dizzy on a tight 180 before it would break loose.

Upon replacement I switched to the Pilot Super Sports and had the car realigned which troughs a extra twist in evaluation. I noticed the alignment right away as the cars tendency to slight understeer if more neutral now. We expected that. The one thing not expected was a steering that was a little on the heavy side is now noticeably lighter. I also noticed the squirm of the new rubber as my old tires were well past the wear bars. This was somewhat expected but maybe not as noticeable as it is.

The car does ride way better and tire noise is at least 1/2 of what it was. I felt that I had lost some confidence in the car at first as it was more reactive but moved around more on the extra rubber.

Now, after about 300 miles and starting to push them hard I can say that they are now more predictable and the grip, even new, is equal to or greater than my old tires. They are still a lot quieter and better ridding and am really starting to love them.

Had PZero's on my 20" rims at delivery of my 991S. Hated them. Fortunately they were gone in just 5 kmiles. Replaced them with Michelin PSS that are fantastic: better road feel and grip both on dry and wet surfaces (even had a rainy track day with the PSS's), less road noise, etc. I have had PS2's and PSS's replacing Pirelli's and Dunlop's on my Audi S4, VW GTI, Cayman R and now 991S and they have always been great tires.

I think Car & Driver recently tested a bunch of 'performance' summer tires and PSS's came first (Pirelli's last). They were not the best in all tests but had the best all around performance.

Are your rear Michelin PSS tires 295s or 305?

ChuckJ

295's

Hopefully Michelin will make a 305 by the time my P-Zeroes wear out.

The PZeros on my 991s will be replaced with Michelin SuperSports as soon as they wear out.

hope they put PSS on 991 C4S.. all wheel drive with stickiness of PSS!

I guess I am not am no tire expert. The p zeros seem just fine on my 20 inch wheels.

Most of us know that Michelin tires and like them. Less of us have had P zeros to experience. Now we have some quantitative data with people taking g measurements as there are meters in every car. A couple of people have warn out their P Zeros and bought Michelins and qualitatively measured that they sound quieter. I'm looking for some folks to get the 1.15+ measurements with the Michelins that they got with the P Zeros- and it's only a mater of time until we find out.

ChuckJ

Agreed, my thinking is based on past experience as I have not found the limits of the P-Zeroes and have no issues with them. I can only compare some time in the cab w/o PASM sport and ST wheels and can say there is a huge difference in ride, turn in and ground clearance. The tires felt great on both. I will be watching to see what others judge about the difference between Michelin and Pirelli.

Corect. For the 19" standard equipment is the Goodyear Eagle F1.

But Porsche is giving Pirelli tires for some reason on the 20", both 295 and 305...! They said that the engineers (Porsche & Pirelli) worked together to develop a tire for the car and only for this car. So the Pirelli is custom made for the 991.

Now I'm really interested to see G data on the Michelin tires, although it's hard for me to believe that they didn't work with Michelin also (especially if they have an "N") number.

ChuckJ

Has anyone noticed the 3D online configuration shows Michellin tires?

yes....

So does this mean no " N rated " Michelin Pilot Super sports since they have not been tested by Porsche like the Michelin Pilot Sports were. I am replacing my rear tires and dealing with this question now. People were saying the PSS are very good tires just no " N rating ". Some were thinking they were going to be on the 991,s and N rated thus increasing the cost of the tires.

I saw some other cars at the track with Michelins, like a Cayman, and the wear at the track on the Michelins was terrible!! Meanwhile, I might be able to get a 4th track day from my Perillis. Are you guys that are loving the Michelins tracking them, or only commuting?

I do not believe Michelin has released any N rated Super Sports yet.

I spoke with a Porsche NA factory guy out of Atlanta that was here in IL for a track day about this topic.... Pirelli has a 3 year exclusive deal with Porsche on the S model's tires. The tires were co-developed... so Porsche had to give them some type of incentive (exclusivity) to avoid having to pay R&D for the tire development. He said don't expect anything other than the PZero's for a few years (in respects to a Porsche approved tire). He said that the major thing I'll see if I change out to the Pilot's will be brake wear in the rear of the car.

He asked me what I thought about the 991... and I complained about the tires... went through a set (front and rear) in a single track day.... :rolleyes: That's what prompted the conversation.

P.S. He also said not to run 18" slicks on the track having the 20" OE wheels...... bad idea for a bunch of reasons... but he wouldn't get into details...

He told you not to run 18" slicks because 18" wheels will not fir on the car. The rear suspension members hit the inside of an 18" wheel.

You just saved me a lot of sweat and tears.

I have Carerra III style 18s from my 997 and I was wondering if I could use them on the 991. I was just going to throw them on and try.

Now I'll be throwing them on Ebay...

Gracias.

DRP

The PS2 Michelins wear a lot faster than the pilot super sports.

The super sports are one of those isolated examples of more costing less. All benefit no drawback.

They have better dry and wet grip than PS2
They cost less than PS2
- Here's the real savings for the 911 buyer - They wear much slower particularly on track (michelin's press materials site 50% slower wear rate on track).

My experience with the PSS on the 997.2 confirm this. Its a no brainer choice. A tad more expensive then most other options, but cheaper than its predecessor.

If these P Zeros were less than a set of Pilot Super Sports then I could see people buying them as replacements, but they're more expensive by a few hundred bucks for a set.

Last thing: This is a total editorial comment - In my experience, no tire brand offers a more refined, polished and precise turn in than a Michelin. It improves the steering. Other tires have more initial grip on turn in, which some may prefer, but Michelins, in my opinion, transition into a corner like a smooth motorcycle rider leaning over their bike. Can make the whole car feel more sophisticated. These Pirellis are a little reluctant to turn in - with excellent grip as they do. Anyway, just my 2 cents.


DRP

Would someone be so kind as to reply with the 991 specs for the Pilot Super Sports?

Thanks

Not sure what you mean by specs. Go to tirerack.com and enter your car's specification and the tire choices along with all specs will appear.

The Pilot Super Sports are slightly higher load rating in the front than the Pirellis 94 vs. 91. They could be marginally heavier, but that's not certain.

What is certain is that they are less expensive!

Also, there's link on the tirerack, or perhaps its on pca.org - so that once you are within the PCA tirerack site, a portion of your purchase gets donated to the PCA. At least that was the case in 2011. Worth checking into.

Regards,
DRP

See DRSpeed's comments and know also that I think the latest Porsche spec designation is N4.

ChuckJ

[QUOTE=ChuckJthe latest Porsche spec designation is N4.

ChuckJ[/QUOTE]

The "N" represents N rating...porsche approved the numberr that follows N1, N2 is the generation of that specific tire. So a 2011 Pirelli PZero newly introduced with have an N0 rating while a Michelin from 3 years ago could be an N4 rating (3 prior versions of the same michelin having been produced).

Still no N rating for the PSS. I believe some deal with Pirelli expires within a year or so - then the Super Sport will get an N rating I bet.

DRP

drspeed is right again, the N designation is not yet on the new 991 sized tires.

ChuckJ

Resurrecting this thread because, after almost a year of happy cornering, my OEM P-Zeroes are pretty threadbare, in particular the rears.

Attached is TireRack's comparison of the Michelin PSS, Pirelli P-Zero (non-N) and P-Zero N. (Data where only one tire differs are marked yellow and data where all three tires differ are marked green for easier parsing.)

Assuming the data TireRack gives for the tires isn't totally off, four things jump out at me right away:

1. Their Customer survey ratings are much higher for the PSS.
2. The PSS is designed for less thread wear (300 vs 220). Assuming thread wear is roughly proportional to grip, this means less grip for the PSS.
3. The non-N and N-spec P-Zeros actually differ significantly. In particular, the non-N-spec P-Zero has a much higher front load rating and weighs more in front and less in the back. Section and thread widths differ throughout.
4. There is no significant difference in price for a set of non-N-spec ($1,602) and N-spec ($1,640) P-Zeros.

Seeing that both the PSS and non-N P-Zero are sold for many vehicles, not just the 911, doesn't this support the N-spec-leaning camp? In particular, there doesn't seem to be an "N-spec markup", it seems P-Zeros are just more expensive.

I run 19" NB 997 Carrera classics with 888's on the track and its just awesome. The front offsets are pretty close the calipers but they do clear. The rears sit similar to the OEM 20"s against the fender. If they didn't hum so bad I'd have them on the car all the time.

Re MPSS, speaking from my 997T4S experience, it's a no brainer for replacements - they are so plush and grippy. Also, FWIW, I was in the Ferrari showroom on Park Ave this week and noticed most of the new models sported MPSS.

For the M PSS rear, 101Y XL for BMW spec is closer to N rated P Zero.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....XLV2&tab=Specs

I wonder if it is going to be an issue if we use a considerably lower load rating than the original? 91 vs 95 is a bit difference.

But On tirerack, it seems the only suggestion for the 2S and 4S is pirellis..
seems like there is no size for us on the michelins..

Since the GT3 is getting Dunlop Sport Maxx Race, I'm hoping they will release those in 20's. My guess would be they would outperform the MSS.

Not sure I understand. The image I posted shows the MPSS for 20" C2S models in 240/295 size.

That all makes sense but from experience on almost all my previous Porsches, I found the P-Zero compound seemingly harder, more difficult to get up to optimal temp or able to feel that threshold, and terrible in wet and/or conditions, particularly in cornering (even low-speed cornering) in comparison to the various versions of the Porsche-build Pilots.

Your timing on this question today was perfect because I was bad mouthing my P-Zeros this morning at dawn while heading off to the office. Hoping to change over to Pilots again soon.

As far as tread wear is concerned, there are just two many variables in each of our drivings styles to say one way or the other which tire is really better for tread wear. I guess.

tread wear...
 

good points in regard to the 2 tires, however, the Pirelli has a wear rating of 220 and the michelin is 300. So the Michelin lasts longer. Michelin made a big deal about longevity with the PSS. Their PR reads that using technology perfected at LeMans, not only is overall durability increased, but particularly when used on track the PSSs are allegedly 50% more durable in that environment than the PS2. Anyone who followed F1 in the first 1/2 of the last decade knows Michelins wear more slowly than a tire with such grip has any right to.

Last thing. They now offer a 91Y load rating front PSS which matches the OEM tire.

I will be getting the Michelins...

DRP

front vs. rear wear for the 991?
 

Can anyone who needs new rear tires on their 991 comment on the condition of their fronts?

Given the new wheelbase and other changes, the fronts seem to be shouldering more of the load than on my last 997. All other things being equal, this should lead to more front tire wear. It used to be 2 rears for every front set. Do the fronts need replacing along with the rears now for the new car (I'monly at 9000 miles - 2 of which were on winter tires)?

Happy easter,
DRP

PDCC or none?

Just had 10k service done. I have the same wear on all four tires, i.e., 5mm of tread left. I have PDCC and P-Zeros.

How many miles left on my rears? This is approx. 7k miles of wear.

New Michelins this summer....;)

DRP