New 6spo member... 991S ordered
 

I just joined this forum and will therefore start by wishing all here well.

I like many of you am an avid Porsche fan and have been privileged to own a few. My last one being a 997.2 GT3 which I was thrilled with. Due to an injury I suffered (motorcycle and deer) last year, which left me unable to drive for many months, I sold the GT3 and decided to order a 991 when I was recovered. Well that time has arrived and I've placed an order for a 991S with the following spec:

991 S (US spec with all the standard features)
Platinum Silver
20in-Carrera S wheels
Wheels painted Platinum (semi-gloss)
Black standard interior
Sunroof (steel which I think will look better on a Silver car)
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) with PASM sport suspension
Sport Chrono Package
Sport Exhaust System
SportDesign steering wheel
Packages P37 BOSE(R) Audio Package
Premium Package*
*Interior P06 Power Sport Seats (14-way)

Its been a challenge to finalise on the above spec and much to the relief of all at my P dealership it is now locked in for a September build.

I had ordered/seriously considered the 7speed manual, glass roof, white, agate grey, 18 way adaptive seats, wheels painted black, .... but eventually settled on the above spec.

Your comments about the spec are welcome.

Welcome to the forum!

Welcome! Now the wait begins.........

if i were you, i'd remove bose. bose system is such a piece of crap you don't want to spend $ on

Agree about the sound quality of Bose but I stuck it in due to past resale experience. It seems that folks expect the car to have a high...ish end audio. I also wanted the Bluetooth and sat radio etc which comes with the package hence the inclusion. All that said, I agree with you in that Bose is average sound. Especially for the money. In reality when I'm driving my P cars I hardly listen to anything but the sound of the exhaust and engine.

it's not that i must have a high-end audio in my car but when I pay extra 2k+ on top of 100k+, i expect to get something that is worth 2k+. that said bose is not even near worth $1k. on the other hand i think Burmester is worth 5k getting it but i didn't get one myself.

On a slightly different note (no pun intended ;) ), what are your impressions of the PSE? Been worth it?

definitely. it sounds so nice it's like i'm having a wet-dream while i'm driving:D. good thing about it is you can turn it off any time you want.

Hello,

Congrats on your new purchase and welcome to the forum. Please post pictures of your 991 when you receive it. =)

Take Care

Welcome to the forums and congrats on your order.

I have one on order as well. I dropped PDCC and PDK after careful deliberation. You should think about this especially bcos you previously owned a GT3.

There is article in Excellence magazine that suggests exactly that actually. PDCC killes the body roll to the point that you lose the interaction withe suspension going around corners. And as for PDK, you might quickly get bored on the street.
I would also look into Sports Design Package or the full Aerokit. Just a fe we thoughts.

Thanks for the welcome all.

Congratulations on the order and thanks for your comments. I'll start by addressing my choice of PDK. I'll also admit that for me my 997.2 C4S PDK was a dissiapoinment and I did find it somewhat non-involving. I had switched to it from a 997 TT and found it hard to deal with the PDK and less power on the C4S. Hence my going for a GT3 which was great for driver involvement but harsh for long drives.

Fast forward to a year ago (to the day). I was involved in collision on my motorcycle with a deer. The result was a dead deer, motorcycle, and almost me! I did end up with 5 broken ribs, posterior dislocated shoulder, broken scapula, broken collarbone, and a few other damaged bits. I was lucky to have survived thanks to me wearing all my safety gear. It's been a slog for my injuries to heal but they have and I've regained 80% mobility in my shoulder... but it's not perfect and I need to nurse it for another year or so. It relates to my choice of PDK over manual. My initial choice was to go for a mt car but after driving one for a while I started having some shoulder issues. Another issue that swayed me was that I found the PDK in the 991 was greatly improved from previous versions. It was very responsive and in some and different respects demanded more driver involvement than even a mt. Without getting into the proverbial MT vs PDK debate I think the PDK suits my needs better at the moment.

I am surprised by the comments in Excellence.... I will dig it out and have a read. I do feel that PDCC is something I want to try out and there have been many who have praised it and a very few who have not. Once again I think it's a matter of personal choice. In my case I'm not looking for GT3 type performance or handling. I am looking for reasonable handling where I have the flexibility to switch from a cruising mode to a spirited driving setup when I desire. Hence the inclusion of mainly handling related options on the car.

I'm sure the GT3 or TT version of the 991 will eventually temp me but for the time being this may have to do.

Congratulations on your order! I am in the same boat as you. My order just went in and I just got told today by the dealer that they have received a completion date of 13 Sept from the factory, so I likely won't see my car until mid Oct at the earliest.

The PDCC is a waste unless you are doing time trials on the track. If the car is strictly for enjoyment, I would not spend the money. Save the money on the PDCC and upgrade to the Burmester sound package, it will be well worth it.

Haku,
The article in current Excellence magazine. Just read it.

Congratulations on yours too! Yup, sometime September build... i think mine is late Sept. So probably late October delivery. Ah well they do say that the wait is part of the experience!

Re the PDCC issue, I've made some comments further down this post which apply. As far as the sound system... I'm not an audiophile when I'm in my P car. The option would be to just save the money instead. While I think the Burmeister system is terrific, it's just no comparison to the sound coming out of the PSE! ;)

This may turn into a healthy "to PDCC or Not" debate which I think may generate some useful info.

Here's a summary of PDCC from the horse's mouth:
- PDCC on 911 Carrera S holds the road even better and delivers even sportier performance
- you can steer through corners faster and in a more relaxed manner
- anticipates and reduces lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres
- minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground
- improved dynamic performance
- increased ride comfort at all speeds

Of course one takes a lot of marketing bs with a pinch of salt but the fundamental issues for me are that I want a performance experience without being shunted around as much as I would be in my previous GT3. The fact is that less roll increases stability. I'm sure that the system will take some getting used to but the overall experience will also be enhanced by the PDCC. Someone on another forum summed it up quite nicely..."with PDCC you can have the creature comforts of a road car, with the handling of a GT3 = best of all worlds".

Although my order is now locked, I will out of interest do some more research on the PDCC issue and add it to this or another thread. All comments are of course welcome.

Congrats on the order. An excellent choice of specs. I would not do anything different. You will love this car.

Sounds like a great and well thought out build for your needs.

Absolutely IMO,....most reviews also agree, PDCC has very marginal effects for a street driven 991. Track is another issue, but even then the verdict may still be out.

I went with Burmester and is one of the things I'm most looking forward to.

Alpine, aamersa thanks for your comments....appreciated.

I agree that the verdict may still be out but am not too sure about you stating that "most reviews also agree". I've yet to come across a review that really drills down and focuses on PDCC. I think the system is too new for them to truly evaluate it. I remain open to opinions.

I did come across this post from a 6speeder:


I also came across this video which I found interesting:

Funny how they show a 997 vs. a 991,.....now someone really needs to show me a 991 with and without PDCC. I'm betting it is a lot closer comparison.

My biggest problem with PDCC is the present engineering behind it. It has an hydraulic pump, many fluid lines and hoses, control unit & actuators at front wheels. Lots of complexity and weight here for not that much street benefit IMO. I just don't think it has come full circle enough for me to spend $3k ~ $4k on it. Kinda like the first existence of PASM and PDK, a little rough around the edges. When the execution of the technology becomes a little more mature (like electrical/magnetic) I'll take another look at it, until then I'll pass.

For what it's worth, I test drove 991s with and without it on the street for about 20 minutes each and could hardly tell any difference,....and the difference I did notice was a slightly softer ride (about 5~10%) on the PDCC car, nothing as far as body lean. To me the non-PDCC version is so good spending the $$$ on a slightly softer ride was not going to happen.

Now for Burmester,.....that brought a huge grin within 2 minutes of driving :D

My money is on PDCC for the track and non-PDCC for the street. And if you think you can beat PDCC on the track, congratulations, you must be good!!

ChuckJ

To PDCC, or not to PDCC
 

I am new to the forum as well, and I am awaiting delivery of my first porsche probably by the end of July. I've ordered a fairly well appointed 991 S Cab with PDCC and am intrigued by all the comments for and against. I read a lot of press in trying to make my decision to opt for it and ultimatley decided to try to select all options that improve performance, regardless on how much I would track the car. Obviously by ordering the cab, I am not planning on a lot of serious track time.

Last month I had the distinct pleasure to attend the Porsche sport driving school and tracked both the 991s and the new boxsters. I queried many of the instructors, all former race car drivers, and they universally said the PDCC was the bomb. I also recognize it is an option more important on the track than as a DD.

As a side note, the Boxster was absolutely amazing on the track...but it wasn't a 911.

BD, thank you for your reply. Hello from one newb to another. I'm intrigued about the comments from the instructors. Could you please elaborate?

Nothing that has not already been posted and mostly boils down to what you re-posted from zzspeed. The less roll, the greater control of fore/aft weight transfers in acceleration/braking, less understeer/oversteer, and faster cornering. In my mind, if that is coupled with PVT, then my wife will not complain as much if I blow through the turns!

I don't think anyone here is really questioning that PDCC could allow greater performance at the track,....I believe it does. I think the question here is if it is worth the asking price for the small if any value it has on the street. For $3.2K most leave it on the table. Maybe once it works on all four corners with better execution I'd be all in.

I'd also be aware of what was said at a Porsche sponsored driving event. Porsche is as much a marketing machine today as anything else. :rolleyes:
This is where I'd much rather trust myself and some better independent reviews compared to anything company sponsored.

The best thing to do is get out and drive both versions, then make the choice!

Welcome and congrats on your order. With respect to options, I have PSE on my 991 and highly, highly recommend it. I didn't order PDCC, but if I were ordering my car today I would get it if I planned on tracking the car extensively. I have Bose and it is disappointing. If you can listen to the Burmester in a demo I suggest you do that and then decide if you want to add it.

PDCC is obviously more technically capable and essential on the track so if you want to win on the track you should get it. That said, if you plan to take the car over .9G on the highway, you probably should also get it. But if you plan to keep your highway limit below that and you want the 911 "feel" you probably should omit that option as well as Power steering Plus.

ChuckJ

I'm very familiar with all the marketing strategies employed, and certainly the best ploy is to send a potential porsche buyer to Barber motorsports park and put him behind the wheel of the new Boxster or 991. if you don't come away drinking the kool-aid, then you didn't push the car enough. that being said, all these options are all window dressing on what appears to be a very exceptional car. Even if you don't track the car, if you drive through the mountains at all, take the tail of the dragon for example, then PDCC may be awesome. I truly believe it is not NECESSARY, none of the cars I drove at the track had it, but I bet its a lot of fun. If finances are a big concern, and its not being tracked, then don't opt for it. I never had the luxury of being able to drive them side by side before placing my order, so i had to rely on the press, accepting all biases.

I live in a rural and hilly area and almost all or my P car driving is on windy roads and often includes the roads in and around the Smokies including the Cherohala and the Blue Ridge Parkway etc. I too feel that PDCC may just be the ticket and plaster a huge grin on my face. I know it's pricey but when your think about it, 3% of the car' value isn't a huge amount for what I expect it to deliver. I also think that it's up to the overall spec of the car that will ultimately determine performance and fun factor. A combination of pasm, pdcc, sport chrono (mainly the dynamic engine mounts), should do the job. The PSE is orchestral! As has been mentioned, any 991 is going to be fun and I for one am glad Porsche offer the options they do no matter how effective they are for drivers or profit.

Those are two 997s!! Are you still convinced it doesn't make a difference?

I don't mean to dismiss the legitimacy of your viewpoint but when you start championing the stereo over the newest and potentially most significant performance option on the world's most celebrated sports car... after a 20 minute test on the street... words fail me...

You might be right, since only time will tell. But your conclusions are neither scientific (see video), nor thorough.

BnB, when I saw the video I too assumed it was a 991 vs 997 but after looking at it more carefully I think you are correct. They are both 997's.

Re pdcc, I think there are quite a few 6speeders who have it on their 991. It would be interesting to get their views. Technically I'm convinced about it's benefits, and thus me going for it, I am intrigued about its weight and complexity.

Everyone I've spoken to who has PDCC swears by it. I've opted for it too and may yet regret the decision. But at least I'll have the benefit of some extensive experience when I make my judgement. I understand it is considerably lighter than the equivalent tech on a Cayenne or Panamera.

I did have an hour with a PDCC car, as well as three test drives without (on mountain roads). The non-PDCC cars felt wallowy by comparison. But time will eventually tell much more than a test drive.

Haku,
I guess I kicked off the a storm by bringing up the PDCC issue in replying to your post about the build. But it is an interesting thread. Here is my 0.02 again.

I disagree with everyone about the PDCC and its usefulness on the track versus the street. I think the benefits are quite the opposite. If anyone has closely followed the 991s on the track in the hand hands of novice drivers, they are very quick. Its bcos the car compensates a lot of for lack skill...PDCC, PTV and and improved chassis all contributing. So if you are a novice driver who wants to do regular DEs or an aspiring racer, PDCC is the last thing you should have on the car bcos it one less feedback you will have during your learning...I think it will seriously affect your skills development. You will be fast but slow to learn.

On the other hand, for street driving, its good to have: it will be fun going around country roads or mountainous twists and feeling that awesome-handling chassis setup. It might even save you from bad wreck someday...less body-roll, less panic and less steering corrections,and less chance of going off the road and off a guard rail. On the track though, you want to feel those limits just to learn.

So there is my thoughts..sorry about the long post.

I like it! The Pt/Ag goes great with the Pt wheels. I get lots of complements! Congrats and drive it in good health!

JMO - anything that keeps you on the track or on the road and not face to face with oncoming traffic is a good thing - for novices or NASCAR drivers. Get it!

I can't imagine Porsche making pdcc available on the 991 if there were not significant benefits including weight/performance ratios. I too may regret the decision but for me it makes sense to go for it.

I think the PDCC issue you raised and others have commented on are very relevant and interesting. It's a technology that I for one have not been familiar with and am eager to learn about from others. Hence my appreciation of the differing views from all. All of the comments about pdcc (pro and other) are valid to some extent and therefore have merit.

Thank you AG, I looked at pics of your car and it looks stunning. Congratulations!

I'm trying to find images of a PlatSilver 991 with Carrera S wheel in Platinum... no luck so far except configurator.

agree with chuck. +1

Definitely agree AG's car is stunning ...

As far as PDCC I cannot comment since I don't have it but I can say on the public roads my Carrera S without it is incredible ... the problem I am having is I cannot come close to ANY of the cars 'partial limits' let alone 'total' limits.

What I mean by this is I took a turn the other day very comfortably at 60 mph while the recommended speed was much lower ... about a 1/4 mile later a State tropper comes flying up my butt to pull me over ... unsafe speed he said and here I was not even pushing the car ... he of course had a Chevy Tahoe and it obviously took him quite a lot to catch me but honestly I was surprised ... it really felt like nothing.

This car is really too incredible to ever hit any part of it's limits on the road so with that said if you track it than I can see getting it, if not my goodness this car is insane enough to out handle ANY public road comfortably.

BTW .... no ticket :o