Road and Track "apologizes to the world" over PDK
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ChuckJ
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R&T is the same rag that picked the Evora over the C2S. They are grasping at straws to stay in business trying to appeal to the so called purist. They are a member of the "we may be slow but we are having more fun" club. Next month, the MGTD beats out the 458 in a comparison.
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I have had Audis with fantastic double clutches, but right now my sports cars are all 6spd
The issue is bigger. The newest cars are so capable, but also a little dull unless you are hammering them on a track.
People care more about numbers than experience. On the track sure, but i would rather have fun than drive a robot. I'm actually only racing myself. I'm driving for fun.
Would a guitar that plays the chords for you actually be more fun?
It's not the DSG, the traction control, the abs, the rear steering, the yaw control, the electric steering, The magnetic shocks. It's all of those things at the same time.
And we have seen nothing yet. Once we have true electric sports cars the rules will change again. Active aero won't have to worry about geeing the engine and the power to the wheels will have infinite possibilities at that point we will be driving robots, deluded that we are doing the driving.
I mountain bike. A bike is a great way to feel speed in its truest mechanicalr form.
The issue is bigger. The newest cars are so capable, but also a little dull unless you are hammering them on a track.
People care more about numbers than experience. On the track sure, but i would rather have fun than drive a robot. I'm actually only racing myself. I'm driving for fun.
Would a guitar that plays the chords for you actually be more fun?
It's not the DSG, the traction control, the abs, the rear steering, the yaw control, the electric steering, The magnetic shocks. It's all of those things at the same time.
And we have seen nothing yet. Once we have true electric sports cars the rules will change again. Active aero won't have to worry about geeing the engine and the power to the wheels will have infinite possibilities at that point we will be driving robots, deluded that we are doing the driving.
I mountain bike. A bike is a great way to feel speed in its truest mechanicalr form.
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I'm inclined to think you're right about the bean counters. Having been in a fortune 500 research and manufacturing business for many years, I would think there were many more costs than just manufacturing given so many changes in the box. That said, I'm just wondering if anyone had documentation / testimony from the execs that at least described what they wanted people to think caused the decision. Perhaps a customizing house will pick up the ball.
ChuckJ
ChuckJ
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R & T is a rag I wouldn't wipe with.
Yes, using a clutch is good fun but I have tons of fun shifting with my pdk in sport+. The pdk also happens to be faster, excellent for use as my daily driver, and does magical things during launch control.
Agree with the previous post. If I want a miata, I will buy one. I want state of the art technology. I am not sure when this debate will end, but I will be happy when it does.
Yes, using a clutch is good fun but I have tons of fun shifting with my pdk in sport+. The pdk also happens to be faster, excellent for use as my daily driver, and does magical things during launch control.
Agree with the previous post. If I want a miata, I will buy one. I want state of the art technology. I am not sure when this debate will end, but I will be happy when it does.
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with all due respect- I wanted a have a MT and opted for the a C2S cab. Miata is not the experience I was looking for. PDK is great no question about it, but there are some of us who enjoy the MT involvement. To each there own this debate will continue till the cows come home. I am happy with my decision as are those of you who have PDK. To each their own-lets leave it at that. There is no wrong choice. Wealth=options.
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... recently there have been articles about manufacturers working on GPS based gear shifts that 'know' the road and what the optimum gear will be, so your PDK (or whichever system) will know when it makes sense to downshift/upshift based on what's coming ahead on the road. Turn optimization... probably not so far-fetched either.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ce-Wraith.html
Yes, you won't even have to paddle shift anymore, the computer will know best exactly when and where to do it (great for both a grand tourer and a race car). No doubt it's coming to a Porsche near you soon (not sure about the stars lining the roof).
I agree that it's sad. I did get a PDK, no regrets, but I do feel nostalgic about the past. I want to buy a good old-fashioned winding watch one of these days, for memory's sake.
Let's enjoy what we have while we still have them. Gears themselves are a quaint notion in electric cars.
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with all due respect- I wanted a have a MT and opted for the a C2S cab. Miata is not the experience I was looking for. PDK is great no question about it, but there are some of us who enjoy the MT involvement. To each there own this debate will continue till the cows come home. I am happy with my decision as are those of you who have PDK. To each their own-lets leave it at that. There is no wrong choice. Wealth=options.
Drive what you like folks, at least as long as you have that option!
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I have a Spec Miata for the track, a PDK C2S for the street, date nights and long trips and an 84 911 to get the MT itch scratched. Lucky I am to have choices. Porsche should have done the same with all their models!
I can imagine the technology could exist to have a stick to play with and a button to convert to auto when in traffic or just cruising...
I can imagine the technology could exist to have a stick to play with and a button to convert to auto when in traffic or just cruising...
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It's already here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ce-Wraith.html
Yes, you won't even have to paddle shift anymore, the computer will know best exactly when and where to do it (great for both a grand tourer and a race car). No doubt it's coming to a Porsche near you soon (not sure about the stars lining the roof).
I agree that it's sad. I did get a PDK, no regrets, but I do feel nostalgic about the past. I want to buy a good old-fashioned winding watch one of these days, for memory's sake.
Let's enjoy what we have while we still have them. Gears themselves are a quaint notion in electric cars.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ce-Wraith.html
Yes, you won't even have to paddle shift anymore, the computer will know best exactly when and where to do it (great for both a grand tourer and a race car). No doubt it's coming to a Porsche near you soon (not sure about the stars lining the roof).
I agree that it's sad. I did get a PDK, no regrets, but I do feel nostalgic about the past. I want to buy a good old-fashioned winding watch one of these days, for memory's sake.
Let's enjoy what we have while we still have them. Gears themselves are a quaint notion in electric cars.
As you say, gears (and an exhaust note) will be endangered soon enough too. I don't see the MT as the past per se, but obviously self-driving gearless silent 'things' will one day be all the excitement we get. Blech.
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Good for them. Just took delivery of my 2013 C4S MT. I would have bought an SL if MT was not available.
Looking for a manual 430 spider if anyone knows of one.
Looking for a manual 430 spider if anyone knows of one.
Yikes, looks like Road & Track are no longer PDK fans. I have been saying this all along.
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The crux of the issue is that there's a fundamental difference between speed-obsessed German engineers and good ol' silly Americans who just love to drive a manual. For the former, there's a point at which the automatic is faster and can be programmed to be more efficient. It then becomes "better." To the rest of us, it merely becomes a better automatic. And while the GT3's PDK is one of the better automatics, there is not, nor will there ever be, an automatic that is as involving as a manual. The 911, like so many other cars, has traded a degree of involvement for speed. We'd happily lose time on the sprint to 60 mph, or a few seconds per lap, if it meant more fun.
Tobias Hutzler But rather than lay all the blame on Preuninger and Germans as a whole, we're partly at fault. There was a time when most enthusiasts seemed to view the dual-clutch automatic as the second coming. After living with those transmissions for a decade, they just feel like automatics.
On that note, allow us to apologize on behalf of an entire industry. We were wrong. We don't care about shaving tenths off acceleration runs. We want to work for our lap times. We're bored to death behind the wheel, and we want to get busy with a shift lever and a clutch pedal.
Perhaps those Germans also can admit they made a mistake.
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The crux of the issue is that there's a fundamental difference between speed-obsessed German engineers and good ol' silly Americans who just love to drive a manual. For the former, there's a point at which the automatic is faster and can be programmed to be more efficient. It then becomes "better." To the rest of us, it merely becomes a better automatic. And while the GT3's PDK is one of the better automatics, there is not, nor will there ever be, an automatic that is as involving as a manual. The 911, like so many other cars, has traded a degree of involvement for speed. We'd happily lose time on the sprint to 60 mph, or a few seconds per lap, if it meant more fun.
On that note, allow us to apologize on behalf of an entire industry. We were wrong. We don't care about shaving tenths off acceleration runs. We want to work for our lap times. We're bored to death behind the wheel, and we want to get busy with a shift lever and a clutch pedal.
Perhaps those Germans also can admit they made a mistake.
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I am amazed at the number of posters that seem to feel threatened because an auto magazine offered an opinion which differs from their own. Just because a magazine offered their opinion does not mean there is a sinister conspiracy to debunk PDK cars or Porsche in general. I feel these guys, who drive cars and write about them for a living, were just offering their honest opinion. It is an opinion I share and one I have opined about for years, however , this is the first time I have seen it in print. They are not attempting to make everyone who bought a PDK feel like they made a mistake. They are simply lamenting the fact that they ENJOY driving a manual better in the GT3.