991c4s vs new R8 V8
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Every once in awhile, the financial stars and planets align for us car owners. It happened once before for me when I purchased an early 996 turbo and sold it for more than I paid for it after 10000 miles.
It happened again with the R8 I just bought. Because of the announcement of the dual clutch R8 for this year's cars, last years R8 sales tanked. Audi of America started putting huge trunk money on the leftover 2012 R8's to move them to get ready for the dual clutch 2014s (there was no 2013 in the US). These incentives were for either the older single clutch automatics or the 6 speed manuals (which was, and remains a great transmission). So I picked up a new, loaded R8 V10 spyder manual for $140K. Sticker was around $180K. Now that the leftovers are gone and the 2014s are out, dealer discounts are tiny at best and the 2012s have regained much of their used car values.
It happened again with the R8 I just bought. Because of the announcement of the dual clutch R8 for this year's cars, last years R8 sales tanked. Audi of America started putting huge trunk money on the leftover 2012 R8's to move them to get ready for the dual clutch 2014s (there was no 2013 in the US). These incentives were for either the older single clutch automatics or the 6 speed manuals (which was, and remains a great transmission). So I picked up a new, loaded R8 V10 spyder manual for $140K. Sticker was around $180K. Now that the leftovers are gone and the 2014s are out, dealer discounts are tiny at best and the 2012s have regained much of their used car values.
Last edited by uhn2000; Jun 6, 2013 at 05:21 AM.
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Reviews are always bias. The key take away here is everyone wants to benchmark against the 911! Any you only benchmark against the best right? Now give yourself a pat on the back for making the right choice.
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When people compare mileage - the Prius comes up.
When Americans gauge HP, the Mustang usually comes up in a conversation.
When performance is mentioned, you can't NOT discuss the Corvette, 911 Turbo, or GT-R.
Interestingly enough, because there is a new tier of cars (instead of just one or two), cross comparisons are inevitable. For example, Honda admitted that the NSX (replacement) would not be released until its performance would be better than the GT-R. That was about 3-4 years ago. Still haven't heard too much from it. BUT - the 911 is compared to the R8, the GT-R - to the 911, the NSX to the GT-R, so now there is a link from the NSX to the R8 (not to mention Tony Stark was paid enough to make the switch). There is also a link from the F430 to the 996 Turbo, and now the 458 to the Turbo S, and McLaren MP4-12C to the 458, so now there is even a cross connect from the R8 to the MP4-12C.
What makes this entertaining, and the magazines idiotic - on some parallel, there is someone who thinks the M3 fits in a comparison with an upper tier car like the 458. And it could possibly win, because the backseat space and trunk space scores so high when compared to the Ferrari.
Last edited by jaspergtr; Jun 6, 2013 at 08:31 AM.
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There's an *** for every saddle and a lid for every pot, and the same holds true for automobile models and their adherents. There is no perfect car. There is no best car. Cars have different personalities as do people, so there is a car best suited for everyone's individual personality, needs, financial reach, and sense of style. Some want their car not to attract attention and others who crave all the attention they can get.
Comparisons help people find some perspective on each car's strong points and their weaknesses. The fact that we are all here just proves that we've considered other cars and decided that the 991 best suits our personalities, wishes, and needs.
Comparisons help people find some perspective on each car's strong points and their weaknesses. The fact that we are all here just proves that we've considered other cars and decided that the 991 best suits our personalities, wishes, and needs.
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Or a widely known (not necessarily respected) expected standard.
When people compare mileage - the Prius comes up.
When Americans gauge HP, the Mustang usually comes up in a conversation.
When performance is mentioned, you can't NOT discuss the Corvette, 911 Turbo, or GT-R.
Interestingly enough, because there is a new tier of cars (instead of just one or two), cross comparisons are inevitable. For example, Honda admitted that the NSX (replacement) would not be released until its performance would be better than the GT-R. That was about 3-4 years ago. Still haven't heard too much from it. BUT - the 911 is compared to the R8, the GT-R - to the 911, the NSX to the GT-R, so now there is a link from the NSX to the R8 (not to mention Tony Stark was paid enough to make the switch). There is also a link from the F430 to the 996 Turbo, and now the 458 to the Turbo S, and McLaren MP4-12C to the 458, so now there is even a cross connect from the R8 to the MP4-12C.
What makes this entertaining, and the magazines idiotic - on some parallel, there is someone who thinks the M3 fits in a comparison with an upper tier car like the 458. And it could possibly win, because the backseat space and trunk space scores so high when compared to the Ferrari.
When people compare mileage - the Prius comes up.
When Americans gauge HP, the Mustang usually comes up in a conversation.
When performance is mentioned, you can't NOT discuss the Corvette, 911 Turbo, or GT-R.
Interestingly enough, because there is a new tier of cars (instead of just one or two), cross comparisons are inevitable. For example, Honda admitted that the NSX (replacement) would not be released until its performance would be better than the GT-R. That was about 3-4 years ago. Still haven't heard too much from it. BUT - the 911 is compared to the R8, the GT-R - to the 911, the NSX to the GT-R, so now there is a link from the NSX to the R8 (not to mention Tony Stark was paid enough to make the switch). There is also a link from the F430 to the 996 Turbo, and now the 458 to the Turbo S, and McLaren MP4-12C to the 458, so now there is even a cross connect from the R8 to the MP4-12C.
What makes this entertaining, and the magazines idiotic - on some parallel, there is someone who thinks the M3 fits in a comparison with an upper tier car like the 458. And it could possibly win, because the backseat space and trunk space scores so high when compared to the Ferrari.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 545
From: Bergen County, NJ
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There's an *** for every saddle and a lid for every pot, and the same holds true for automobile models and their adherents. There is no perfect car. There is no best car. Cars have different personalities as do people, so there is a car best suited for everyone's individual personality, needs, financial reach, and sense of style. Some want their car not to attract attention and others who crave all the attention they can get.
Comparisons help people find some perspective on each car's strong points and their weaknesses. The fact that we are all here just proves that we've considered other cars and decided that the 991 best suits our personalities, wishes, and needs.
Comparisons help people find some perspective on each car's strong points and their weaknesses. The fact that we are all here just proves that we've considered other cars and decided that the 991 best suits our personalities, wishes, and needs.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,219
From: Fayetteville
Rep Power: 499
there's an *** for every saddle and a lid for every pot, and the same holds true for automobile models and their adherents. There is no perfect car. There is no best car. Cars have different personalities as do people, so there is a car best suited for everyone's individual personality, needs, financial reach, and sense of style. Some want their car not to attract attention and others who crave all the attention they can get.
Comparisons help people find some perspective on each car's strong points and their weaknesses. The fact that we are all here just proves that we've considered other cars and decided that the 991 best suits our personalities, wishes, and needs.
Comparisons help people find some perspective on each car's strong points and their weaknesses. The fact that we are all here just proves that we've considered other cars and decided that the 991 best suits our personalities, wishes, and needs.
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If I were shopping for a $190K+ car today, I'd have to consider the Audi R8 V10+ with S-Tronic. I'd also have to consider the Porsche 991 Turbo S. Into the mix would have to be an Aston-Martin V12 Vantage as well as a Mercedes SLS. What have I forgotten? The 458 and McLaren are a lot more money so they can't be considered, same as the bigger A-Ms.
From a raw criterion of just fastest accelerating, the Porsche wins handily. It would probably win in a race on a road course, though possibly be challenged by the R8 so it's hard to call a clear winner in overall performance until we see road test results from the V10 Plus R8 and the Turbo S.
From a styling standpoint, the Aston Martin is most elegantly beautiful, though the R8 is very unusual and handsome, while the Gullwing is iconic as is the Porsche. That's too personal a choice to make so you can't give one a higher score than the other as it is strictly opinion-based but if a score must be given, the Aston-Martin would get the 10 pts and each other car would get 9.
I'd be proud and thrilled to own any of the above if I were out shopping for a car pushing $200K. But my final choice would probably be determined by the Turbo's ability to scoot to 60 in as few as 2.7 seconds and that be the clincher for me even though I'd have rare opportunities to use such amazing acceleration abilities. Just knowing one can is good enough, though. I think my second choice would be the R8.
From a raw criterion of just fastest accelerating, the Porsche wins handily. It would probably win in a race on a road course, though possibly be challenged by the R8 so it's hard to call a clear winner in overall performance until we see road test results from the V10 Plus R8 and the Turbo S.
From a styling standpoint, the Aston Martin is most elegantly beautiful, though the R8 is very unusual and handsome, while the Gullwing is iconic as is the Porsche. That's too personal a choice to make so you can't give one a higher score than the other as it is strictly opinion-based but if a score must be given, the Aston-Martin would get the 10 pts and each other car would get 9.
I'd be proud and thrilled to own any of the above if I were out shopping for a car pushing $200K. But my final choice would probably be determined by the Turbo's ability to scoot to 60 in as few as 2.7 seconds and that be the clincher for me even though I'd have rare opportunities to use such amazing acceleration abilities. Just knowing one can is good enough, though. I think my second choice would be the R8.
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The audi R8 is a nice car, but it's looks are rounded, soft and boring on one hand and then angular and jagged at the side blade in a way that looks awkward, like it was an afterthought. But with that being said said. I think the 911 looks even worse. It's style is 50 years old. It needs a complete make over!
I've always disliked Porsches. Even back when I was a teenager.....Rear engined. Are you kidding me? On-throttle understeer and off-throttle oversteer. It's the worst of both worlds. A 4 seater? Now you're really kidding me. Real sports cars have two seats. Trunk in the front plus storage behind the rear seats? It's superfluous. Who cares how practical the 911 is? If you can afford a 911, it's not your only car. Besides, going for a drive in your sports car is a 2 person affair. It's not like you're taking your girlfriend and your buddy for a weekend trip, or even on a Sunday drive. The looks of a 911? Meh. It's very plain Jane for how damn expensive they are. I mean really, what's to like about it? Sure, they sound better than the other 6 cylinders out there, but there's 8,500 prm V10's that sound like an Italian Opera to be had in the same price range.
So a few months back I started shopping supercars and spent some track days with the 458, the Gallardo Superleggera 570-4, the LP 560-4, The Audi R8 V10, the GTR, and the new Viper. The 458 is just phenominal. It does everything you want a car to do. It sounds like a different flavor of Italian opera, but just the same, the engine sounds beautiful. It's also pretty fast. I mean fast is fun, but there's more to driving than just "fast", otherwise I would have saved a bunch of money by buying a GTR. So after driving all of these cars, I grudgingly, out of fairness, took a 4S out for a test drive. That was mostly because the 991 has been completely re-engineered, the weight balance is better by moving the engine forward and because Motor trend awarded the 991 the 2012 driver's car of the year.
So within 5 minutes of setting out for my test drive, I'm on a cloverleaf on to the freeway and I squeeze the throttle open early on, row through the gears on the pdk and the dash readout is showing me I just pulled a 1.2g corner with 3 people in the car and without even a hint of tire squeal or any squirming from the tires. The handling was razor sharp and the chassis was extremely well composed. With the pdk, the engine is always on full tilt, the power never stops with dual clutches and blazing fast shifts and all of the power gets put down to the tarmac between the 4 wheel drive, the torque vectoring and the advanced electronics. The little 400hp 911 was a much better driving experience than the R8 V10, the Gallardo, the GTR and the Viper. I used to own a C6 Vette, so I knew that the 911 was more fun than the Vette by a long shot as well.
To be honest, the experience was very similar to driving the 458 Italia, but with less power. And that is a good thing, when compared to any car other than the 458. The 458 is hands-down, clear cut winner, the most amazing piece of machinery that I have ever driven. I would buy one in a heart beat if it didn't cripple me financially. But at $250k for a used 458 Italia, Ferrari ownership was, and still remains a childhood dream.
So what should I do? The Lambo and the Audi drive more like an RS4. It's sporty, it's luxurious, it fast, but it is not particularly brilliant at any of those tasks. The Lambo has supermodel looks and amazing sountrack, but it just doesn't drive in a way that makes me want to spend $175k to have one. The Audi is like a watered-down version of the Lambo. It's not as pretty. It's not as fast. It's not as exciting. The handling is not as accurate and enjoyable, but it's not as expensive. The GTR and Viper were even worse. It is clear that the engineering emphasis was all on "Go fast. Go really fast". There was no emphasis on "make this car more fun to drive than any other car". Or to make it sound better, or to make it look prettier. Or even to make them more luxurious. If we were talking about a souped up Mustang and how cheap the interior is, that would be different. But here, we are talking about $100+k supercars and compared to the competition, their interior spaces are just not as nice.
In very short order, the solution became clear. The second best driving experience I've ever had was bargain priced compared to a used exotic with a partial warranty left. The Porsche had won me over. I bought a 2013 black on black Carrera 4s with pdk, PASM, sport chrono, sport exhaust, upgraded leather, sport seats, sport steering wheel, bose audio, nav, sunroof and sport techno wheels. Amazingly luxurious. Amazing driving experience through handling, sound, power delivery, race car-like shifting, unobtrusive driver aids and stellar traction. And it's decently fast. I don't hate 911's anymore!
I've always disliked Porsches. Even back when I was a teenager.....Rear engined. Are you kidding me? On-throttle understeer and off-throttle oversteer. It's the worst of both worlds. A 4 seater? Now you're really kidding me. Real sports cars have two seats. Trunk in the front plus storage behind the rear seats? It's superfluous. Who cares how practical the 911 is? If you can afford a 911, it's not your only car. Besides, going for a drive in your sports car is a 2 person affair. It's not like you're taking your girlfriend and your buddy for a weekend trip, or even on a Sunday drive. The looks of a 911? Meh. It's very plain Jane for how damn expensive they are. I mean really, what's to like about it? Sure, they sound better than the other 6 cylinders out there, but there's 8,500 prm V10's that sound like an Italian Opera to be had in the same price range.
So a few months back I started shopping supercars and spent some track days with the 458, the Gallardo Superleggera 570-4, the LP 560-4, The Audi R8 V10, the GTR, and the new Viper. The 458 is just phenominal. It does everything you want a car to do. It sounds like a different flavor of Italian opera, but just the same, the engine sounds beautiful. It's also pretty fast. I mean fast is fun, but there's more to driving than just "fast", otherwise I would have saved a bunch of money by buying a GTR. So after driving all of these cars, I grudgingly, out of fairness, took a 4S out for a test drive. That was mostly because the 991 has been completely re-engineered, the weight balance is better by moving the engine forward and because Motor trend awarded the 991 the 2012 driver's car of the year.
So within 5 minutes of setting out for my test drive, I'm on a cloverleaf on to the freeway and I squeeze the throttle open early on, row through the gears on the pdk and the dash readout is showing me I just pulled a 1.2g corner with 3 people in the car and without even a hint of tire squeal or any squirming from the tires. The handling was razor sharp and the chassis was extremely well composed. With the pdk, the engine is always on full tilt, the power never stops with dual clutches and blazing fast shifts and all of the power gets put down to the tarmac between the 4 wheel drive, the torque vectoring and the advanced electronics. The little 400hp 911 was a much better driving experience than the R8 V10, the Gallardo, the GTR and the Viper. I used to own a C6 Vette, so I knew that the 911 was more fun than the Vette by a long shot as well.
To be honest, the experience was very similar to driving the 458 Italia, but with less power. And that is a good thing, when compared to any car other than the 458. The 458 is hands-down, clear cut winner, the most amazing piece of machinery that I have ever driven. I would buy one in a heart beat if it didn't cripple me financially. But at $250k for a used 458 Italia, Ferrari ownership was, and still remains a childhood dream.
So what should I do? The Lambo and the Audi drive more like an RS4. It's sporty, it's luxurious, it fast, but it is not particularly brilliant at any of those tasks. The Lambo has supermodel looks and amazing sountrack, but it just doesn't drive in a way that makes me want to spend $175k to have one. The Audi is like a watered-down version of the Lambo. It's not as pretty. It's not as fast. It's not as exciting. The handling is not as accurate and enjoyable, but it's not as expensive. The GTR and Viper were even worse. It is clear that the engineering emphasis was all on "Go fast. Go really fast". There was no emphasis on "make this car more fun to drive than any other car". Or to make it sound better, or to make it look prettier. Or even to make them more luxurious. If we were talking about a souped up Mustang and how cheap the interior is, that would be different. But here, we are talking about $100+k supercars and compared to the competition, their interior spaces are just not as nice.
In very short order, the solution became clear. The second best driving experience I've ever had was bargain priced compared to a used exotic with a partial warranty left. The Porsche had won me over. I bought a 2013 black on black Carrera 4s with pdk, PASM, sport chrono, sport exhaust, upgraded leather, sport seats, sport steering wheel, bose audio, nav, sunroof and sport techno wheels. Amazingly luxurious. Amazing driving experience through handling, sound, power delivery, race car-like shifting, unobtrusive driver aids and stellar traction. And it's decently fast. I don't hate 911's anymore!
