C63 Black Series or a 991C2s or 4S??--Your Input Please.
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Here's why you should trade the C63 BS for a new 991
First off, I'm absolutely in awe of your collection, and while your stable is without equal, let me share my (albeit much more limited) experience. I too have had a few Porsches - a Boxster, 997 C2S Cab and now a Cayenne (manual), which I use as my daily driver.
I had a 2012 Black C63 Coupe with the Development Package as my weekend toy - principally because my daughter could fit more comfortably in the back then she could in the 997. As amazing as the C63 is, and of course the BS is even more, you're probably challenged with the lack of grip and the fact that your driving a 4,000 LB car that in essence is a modified sporty passenger car, taken to a level of insanity by the geniuses in Afflaterbach. The MCT is lighting fast and not having a torque converter, means it's all power, all the time, and yet for me, something was still missing.
Precision, over brute force. Balance over aggression. And most importantly - grip. The C63's performance envelope, like all cars can be thought of as a circle within a circle. The first circle represents what you can do safely in a controlled setting, the second represents the performance limits of the car. Venturing from the first circle to the second circle in the wrong situation can result in disaster. In my view the C63's first circle is about half the diameter of the outer circle. In a 991 the inner circle's diameter might be 90% of the outer circle's diameter.
What this translates to is confidence. It takes a while to learn the safe operating limits of any car. In a Porsche those limits depend more on the driving conditions and the skill of the driver, as opposed to the C63 which is constantly tempting you to enter that outer circle - like a dragon luring it's prey.
In a Porsche you are one with the car and the road - they're not perfect, the next one will always be better, and more, always more, but nothing on the road drives, brakes, turns, accelerates and translates an emotion to the driver like the 911. Even on the 991 you can still see where your front tire is going - Ferry's spirit and vision lives on to entice and challenge yet another generation. My 2014 C2S Coupe is due in at the end of July beginning of August.
Thanks for wadding through my gooblie gook. Good luck, be safe and live every day to it's fullest!
I had a 2012 Black C63 Coupe with the Development Package as my weekend toy - principally because my daughter could fit more comfortably in the back then she could in the 997. As amazing as the C63 is, and of course the BS is even more, you're probably challenged with the lack of grip and the fact that your driving a 4,000 LB car that in essence is a modified sporty passenger car, taken to a level of insanity by the geniuses in Afflaterbach. The MCT is lighting fast and not having a torque converter, means it's all power, all the time, and yet for me, something was still missing.
Precision, over brute force. Balance over aggression. And most importantly - grip. The C63's performance envelope, like all cars can be thought of as a circle within a circle. The first circle represents what you can do safely in a controlled setting, the second represents the performance limits of the car. Venturing from the first circle to the second circle in the wrong situation can result in disaster. In my view the C63's first circle is about half the diameter of the outer circle. In a 991 the inner circle's diameter might be 90% of the outer circle's diameter.
What this translates to is confidence. It takes a while to learn the safe operating limits of any car. In a Porsche those limits depend more on the driving conditions and the skill of the driver, as opposed to the C63 which is constantly tempting you to enter that outer circle - like a dragon luring it's prey.
In a Porsche you are one with the car and the road - they're not perfect, the next one will always be better, and more, always more, but nothing on the road drives, brakes, turns, accelerates and translates an emotion to the driver like the 911. Even on the 991 you can still see where your front tire is going - Ferry's spirit and vision lives on to entice and challenge yet another generation. My 2014 C2S Coupe is due in at the end of July beginning of August.
Thanks for wadding through my gooblie gook. Good luck, be safe and live every day to it's fullest!
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Lol....never said it did......just ran across it and reminded of this thread....I could care less either way.
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Your entire post was very good. I like the analogy and description.
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Actually, this video shows how great the C2S is....
Over 100 more horses and over 125 more ft/lb torque the Black Series has....but
it barely beat the C2S by a hair.
Add the X51, should be pretty even
Turbo or GT3 in a drag race should toast the Black.
But who cares about a drag race. Only for punk kid rice racers.
Over 100 more horses and over 125 more ft/lb torque the Black Series has....but
it barely beat the C2S by a hair.
Add the X51, should be pretty even
Turbo or GT3 in a drag race should toast the Black.
But who cares about a drag race. Only for punk kid rice racers.
Last edited by frank69m; Jun 14, 2013 at 09:13 PM.
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First off, I'm absolutely in awe of your collection, and while your stable is without equal, let me share my (albeit much more limited) experience. I too have had a few Porsches - a Boxster, 997 C2S Cab and now a Cayenne (manual), which I use as my daily driver.
I had a 2012 Black C63 Coupe with the Development Package as my weekend toy - principally because my daughter could fit more comfortably in the back then she could in the 997. As amazing as the C63 is, and of course the BS is even more, you're probably challenged with the lack of grip and the fact that your driving a 4,000 LB car that in essence is a modified sporty passenger car, taken to a level of insanity by the geniuses in Afflaterbach. The MCT is lighting fast and not having a torque converter, means it's all power, all the time, and yet for me, something was still missing.
Precision, over brute force. Balance over aggression. And most importantly - grip. The C63's performance envelope, like all cars can be thought of as a circle within a circle. The first circle represents what you can do safely in a controlled setting, the second represents the performance limits of the car. Venturing from the first circle to the second circle in the wrong situation can result in disaster. In my view the C63's first circle is about half the diameter of the outer circle. In a 991 the inner circle's diameter might be 90% of the outer circle's diameter.
What this translates to is confidence. It takes a while to learn the safe operating limits of any car. In a Porsche those limits depend more on the driving conditions and the skill of the driver, as opposed to the C63 which is constantly tempting you to enter that outer circle - like a dragon luring it's prey.
In a Porsche you are one with the car and the road - they're not perfect, the next one will always be better, and more, always more, but nothing on the road drives, brakes, turns, accelerates and translates an emotion to the driver like the 911. Even on the 991 you can still see where your front tire is going - Ferry's spirit and vision lives on to entice and challenge yet another generation. My 2014 C2S Coupe is due in at the end of July beginning of August.
Thanks for wadding through my gooblie gook. Good luck, be safe and live every day to it's fullest!
I had a 2012 Black C63 Coupe with the Development Package as my weekend toy - principally because my daughter could fit more comfortably in the back then she could in the 997. As amazing as the C63 is, and of course the BS is even more, you're probably challenged with the lack of grip and the fact that your driving a 4,000 LB car that in essence is a modified sporty passenger car, taken to a level of insanity by the geniuses in Afflaterbach. The MCT is lighting fast and not having a torque converter, means it's all power, all the time, and yet for me, something was still missing.
Precision, over brute force. Balance over aggression. And most importantly - grip. The C63's performance envelope, like all cars can be thought of as a circle within a circle. The first circle represents what you can do safely in a controlled setting, the second represents the performance limits of the car. Venturing from the first circle to the second circle in the wrong situation can result in disaster. In my view the C63's first circle is about half the diameter of the outer circle. In a 991 the inner circle's diameter might be 90% of the outer circle's diameter.
What this translates to is confidence. It takes a while to learn the safe operating limits of any car. In a Porsche those limits depend more on the driving conditions and the skill of the driver, as opposed to the C63 which is constantly tempting you to enter that outer circle - like a dragon luring it's prey.
In a Porsche you are one with the car and the road - they're not perfect, the next one will always be better, and more, always more, but nothing on the road drives, brakes, turns, accelerates and translates an emotion to the driver like the 911. Even on the 991 you can still see where your front tire is going - Ferry's spirit and vision lives on to entice and challenge yet another generation. My 2014 C2S Coupe is due in at the end of July beginning of August.
Thanks for wadding through my gooblie gook. Good luck, be safe and live every day to it's fullest!
That is a great visual description! Reminds me of the audiophile world's levelers vs sharpeners...
No need to repeat what AJag and Silversled said, they are spot on.
Especially about low end torque. Go for it if you can live with less of (the 991S pushes harder the faster you go rather than kick your butt at take off) and want to try something different (it will feel very different from the other great cars in your superb stable).
A 991TT will be a fantastic car, but more similar to the engine experience you already have.
Especially about low end torque. Go for it if you can live with less of (the 991S pushes harder the faster you go rather than kick your butt at take off) and want to try something different (it will feel very different from the other great cars in your superb stable).
A 991TT will be a fantastic car, but more similar to the engine experience you already have.
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Thank you all again for your input, I appreciate that you give me more than the typical:
Yes or get it LOL
I wanted to test drive this weekend but the dealer where I got my last two turbos didnt even have a 4S and the only C2S was on the showroom floor and I didnt want to hastle them. Ill have to go to another store later this week to drive both.
Thanks again.
Yes or get it LOL
I wanted to test drive this weekend but the dealer where I got my last two turbos didnt even have a 4S and the only C2S was on the showroom floor and I didnt want to hastle them. Ill have to go to another store later this week to drive both.
Thanks again.
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Sell the C63 and put a turbo in the R8. 
That will give you the brute force along with the handling. Win-win.
From my experience, having owned a 991 C2S and a 997.2 Turbo S, you will miss the brutal acceleration. The 991 is pretty wimpy as far as torque goes. Sure, it's got a more compliant ride and is a better GT car, but for me it wasn't as good a sports car.
I would not get a C4S unless you have a real need for AWD. How about a turbo that isn't AWD? That's another option - trade the Merc for a GT2!
Of course, I think the Cayman R and Boxster Spyder are two of the best ever made, so what do I know?
That will give you the brute force along with the handling. Win-win.From my experience, having owned a 991 C2S and a 997.2 Turbo S, you will miss the brutal acceleration. The 991 is pretty wimpy as far as torque goes. Sure, it's got a more compliant ride and is a better GT car, but for me it wasn't as good a sports car.
I would not get a C4S unless you have a real need for AWD. How about a turbo that isn't AWD? That's another option - trade the Merc for a GT2!
Of course, I think the Cayman R and Boxster Spyder are two of the best ever made, so what do I know?
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Sell the C63 and put a turbo in the R8. That will give you the brute force along with the handling. Win-win.
From my experience, having owned a 991 C2S and a 997.2 Turbo S, you will miss the brutal acceleration. The 991 is pretty wimpy as far as torque goes. Sure, it's got a more compliant ride and is a better GT car, but for me it wasn't as good a sports car.
I would not get a C4S unless you have a real need for AWD. How about a turbo that isn't AWD? That's another option - trade the Merc for a GT2!
Of course, I think the Cayman R and Boxster Spyder are two of the best ever made, so what do I know?
That will give you the brute force along with the handling. Win-win.From my experience, having owned a 991 C2S and a 997.2 Turbo S, you will miss the brutal acceleration. The 991 is pretty wimpy as far as torque goes. Sure, it's got a more compliant ride and is a better GT car, but for me it wasn't as good a sports car.
I would not get a C4S unless you have a real need for AWD. How about a turbo that isn't AWD? That's another option - trade the Merc for a GT2!
Of course, I think the Cayman R and Boxster Spyder are two of the best ever made, so what do I know?
Thanks Dr B... I have two RWD turbos right now that I need (I didnt allude deeply in my op but the M6 and M5) and the R8 is probably where I want it mod wise with exhaust, ecu, and tcu mods.
The only expendable right now is the BS so its a tough call since I really enjoy it but I have issues and newer is sometimes better until it becomes older... LOL