Porsches are a bit of a rip-off
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The price is the price as specced. The value is what you are prepared to pay for it. That's business. Period.
How else would Skoda, Seat, VW and Audi all be able to coexist?
I'm not saying Porsche is where the smart money is at.... But neither is Audi.. It's just that the Porsche makes me smile a whole heap more ... Which for an ageing fella is priceless!
How else would Skoda, Seat, VW and Audi all be able to coexist?
I'm not saying Porsche is where the smart money is at.... But neither is Audi.. It's just that the Porsche makes me smile a whole heap more ... Which for an ageing fella is priceless!
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I'm continually amused at the expectations that are expressed.. That something should be standard or not, or that the cost should be $X, or that there should be 50 more horse power etc..
The fact of the matter is that what is offered as standard and at a particular price point for any product is what the market will support.. If Porsche could get $1M for a base 991 with nothing on it they surely would.. It isn't about fairness or what should... it is about what the market will support..
So when I hear the use of the term "ripoff" which seems to show up periodically by frustrated individuals because they aren't getting all they feel they should.. I think the use of that term is unfair.. Instead the use of terms like "overpriced" or lack of value for the price is what should be said... Ripoff implies deception or unfairness.. which there is none of as described
The real issue is that the 991's are really more expensive than everyone thinks because the lack of options.. So get over the fact that you are going to add 20 to 30K over the MSRP of the model, which is the real price.. So a typical 911S is really going to cost $130k.. That should be the comparison point against other cars. Not *****ing about what "should" be included in the basic car.. And from there you can decide if there is enough value to warrant the cost..
If you want value go buy a Toyota or KIA or other mass market box with wheels and 3 options.. past that it is always going to be subjective as to if it is worth it and up to the individual.. My parents still drive a 1990's Buick and can't understand why I'd pay so much money for a Porsche..
The fact of the matter is that what is offered as standard and at a particular price point for any product is what the market will support.. If Porsche could get $1M for a base 991 with nothing on it they surely would.. It isn't about fairness or what should... it is about what the market will support..
So when I hear the use of the term "ripoff" which seems to show up periodically by frustrated individuals because they aren't getting all they feel they should.. I think the use of that term is unfair.. Instead the use of terms like "overpriced" or lack of value for the price is what should be said... Ripoff implies deception or unfairness.. which there is none of as described
The real issue is that the 991's are really more expensive than everyone thinks because the lack of options.. So get over the fact that you are going to add 20 to 30K over the MSRP of the model, which is the real price.. So a typical 911S is really going to cost $130k.. That should be the comparison point against other cars. Not *****ing about what "should" be included in the basic car.. And from there you can decide if there is enough value to warrant the cost..
If you want value go buy a Toyota or KIA or other mass market box with wheels and 3 options.. past that it is always going to be subjective as to if it is worth it and up to the individual.. My parents still drive a 1990's Buick and can't understand why I'd pay so much money for a Porsche..
If porsche wasn't making so much money on the panamera and cayenne I'm sure they would give us more bang for buck but they don't have to. They are making plenty of profit on those vehicles that if a couple hundred leave the 911 to other competition they couldn't care less.
And you say go buy a mass market vehicle like a kia or toyota. Do you think porsche isn't mass marketed too? It sure indeed is.
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While ya'll are bottom fishing in the Kia Camp, I can tell you that my (recently sold) Aston Martin Vantage comes with quite a bit more fine componentry in the standard build than the Porsche, from the aluminum door sills to the full leather interior to wet-sanded paint finishes, Alcantara headliner and aluminum ***** and trim rather than 'aluminum look'. I even had a real aluminum gas cap on it. It offers just as nice a driving experience as a 991 with a lot more uniqueness. Yes, its a bit more costly car, but by the time you bling up the 991 with options, not so much and they come out about par. Of course, they stick it to you on options as well....(and they have a horrible GPS in the car which you have to pay extra for, so there is that). There's a lot of plastic and cheapish fasteners in my 2014 991S, and its not built all that special at the end of day, its a production car. A nice production car - but its not hand-crafted. For a $ 100K + car, it should come with a lot more things standard to other production cars, in my opinion. End of the day, I don't see the Value in the car for the price charged, unless its an intangible such as racing heritage, legacy, Jerry Seinfeld likes 'em, etc.
Last edited by drcollie; May 28, 2014 at 02:38 PM.
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While ya'll are bottom fishing in the Kia Camp, I can tell you that my (recently sold) Aston Martin Vantage comes with quite a bit more fine componentry in the standard build than the Porsche, from the aluminum door sills to the full leather interior to wet-sanded paint finishes, Alcantara headliner and offers just as nice a driving experience as a 991 with a lot more uniqueness. Yes, its a bit more costly car, but by the time you bling up the 991 with options, not so much. Of course, they stick it to you on options as well....(and they have a horrible GPS in the car which you have to pay extra for, so there is that).
There's a lot of plastic and cheapish fasteners in my 2014 991S, and its not built all that special at the end of day, its a production car. A nice production car - but its not hand-crafted. For a $ 100K + car, it should come with a lot more things standard to other production cars in my opinion.
There's a lot of plastic and cheapish fasteners in my 2014 991S, and its not built all that special at the end of day, its a production car. A nice production car - but its not hand-crafted. For a $ 100K + car, it should come with a lot more things standard to other production cars in my opinion.
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That's nice.
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Many valid perspectives and opinions here. To me, the reality is that Porsche is masterful with its pricing strategy. We can all opt out if we want. The steadily increasing prices for each new model year have not yet hit enough resistance for PAG to change. When it does, PAG will definitely change. The fact that Porsche is developing a car to slot between the TTS and the 918 tells me that they are simply exploiting the appetite for $300,000 to $400,000 cars. The company is still stingy on engine output, but other dynamic capabilities more than make up for a power shortage (for the respective price). The 991S's should come with the X51 power kit with perhaps an extra $5k in the base price, for example, but making it available for more than twice that much works fro them.
One curious thing to consider about the company is the pricing on the Audi D4 S8. It is definitely the best relative value on the market for high end performance sedans. I thought long and hard about a fully optioned S8 for around $120k our the door before my emotions took over and lead me to order a TTS.
One curious thing to consider about the company is the pricing on the Audi D4 S8. It is definitely the best relative value on the market for high end performance sedans. I thought long and hard about a fully optioned S8 for around $120k our the door before my emotions took over and lead me to order a TTS.
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I'd probably say as it stands now aston martin is more a rip off than porsche for dollar for value. Now after they get through with getting AMG engines and whatever else that will definitely change. To be honest though I prefer the aston to porsche. A bit more of a visceral experience even if it isn't as precise.
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I think you just have to ignore the "base" price of the 991 that you're building and focus on the all-in price (including all options) and use that bottom line number as a baseline for comparison with other cars. Sure, I would expect things that are standard on a $30k car to be standard on a C2S which starts at $98k, but we all went in eyes wide open.
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after owning a '06 A4 Avant and a '12 S4 prestige 6MT .. and multiple porsches - rip off or not - hands down I prefer porsche and love the fact that I can get it tricked out to my taste
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However, I do believe some options should be standard (ie power folding mirrors, parking sensors) I am fine with the pricing on the performance options as allows individuals to get only what they want and what they can afford. In terms of build quality, well you are getting what you pay for. And considering it is a luxury car I expect the premium price. Pricing is in line with say an Aston Martin V8 Vantage S (fully spec'd) and although their interiors have a beautiful build quality, their infotainment system/navigation system is garbage for the premium you pay. Plus with Porsche you get solid reliability and a great drivers car and not the crappy gear box of the Astons. Compared to some of ridiculous cost of options in a Bentley (completely different tier I know) I can't complain about Porsche options too much (well maybe just a little).
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I'm continually amused at the expectations that are expressed.. That something should be standard or not, or that the cost should be $X, or that there should be 50 more horse power etc.. The fact of the matter is that what is offered as standard and at a particular price point for any product is what the market will support.. If Porsche could get $1M for a base 991 with nothing on it they surely would.. It isn't about fairness or what should... it is about what the market will support.. So when I hear the use of the term "ripoff" which seems to show up periodically by frustrated individuals because they aren't getting all they feel they should.. I think the use of that term is unfair.. Instead the use of terms like "overpriced" or lack of value for the price is what should be said... Ripoff implies deception or unfairness.. which there is none of as described The real issue is that the 991's are really more expensive than everyone thinks because the lack of options.. So get over the fact that you are going to add 20 to 30K over the MSRP of the model, which is the real price.. So a typical 911S is really going to cost $130k.. That should be the comparison point against other cars. Not *****ing about what "should" be included in the basic car.. And from there you can decide if there is enough value to warrant the cost.. If you want value go buy a Toyota or KIA or other mass market box with wheels and 3 options.. past that it is always going to be subjective as to if it is worth it and up to the individual.. My parents still drive a 1990's Buick and can't understand why I'd pay so much money for a Porsche..
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Watch your mouth.....
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Many valid perspectives and opinions here. To me, the reality is that Porsche is masterful with its pricing strategy. We can all opt out if we want. The steadily increasing prices for each new model year have not yet hit enough resistance for PAG to change. When it does, PAG will definitely change. The fact that Porsche is developing a car to slot between the TTS and the 918 tells me that they are simply exploiting the appetite for $300,000 to $400,000 cars. The company is still stingy on engine output, but other dynamic capabilities more than make up for a power shortage (for the respective price). The 991S's should come with the X51 power kit with perhaps an extra $5k in the base price, for example, but making it available for more than twice that much works fro them. One curious thing to consider about the company is the pricing on the Audi D4 S8. It is definitely the best relative value on the market for high end performance sedans. I thought long and hard about a fully optioned S8 for around $120k our the door before my emotions took over and lead me to order a TTS.
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S8 is a phenomonal car
It does not feel like a 4600 lb. car. Its attributes are extremely impressive.