Porsches are a bit of a rip-off
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Wouldn't be a true capitalist without posting. There is no such thing as a "rip-off" in an efficient market. The value of ANYTHING is simply what a willing buyer is WILLING to pay a willing seller. It implies nothing about how "happy" the buyer and seller are about the price (in fact, neither party will be completely satisfied as the buyer will always wish he could pay less and the seller will always wish he had received more). The fact that Porsche is actively selling cars simply indicates that they have accurately determined 1.) what they are willing to sell their own cars for (a given) and 2.) the price a sufficient number of buyers are willing to pay. If it was truly a "rip-off", no cars would move and Porsche would be forced to either 1.) go out of business or 2.) lower the price to the point that sufficient customers are willing to pay. End of story.
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LOL, yeah I agree poor choice of words, a std option might be better but yeah you're still paying for it. You think also that by reduing the amoount of options in a car the price should go down and quality as workers do the same thing over and over.
When I bought my first Porsche I was blown away by the amount of options you could have. Even American cars years reduced the amount of options., but that case it was to improve quality, but for Porsche that is not an issue
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I was responding to a post earlier in the thread. Read a few ahead of that to get perspective.
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Ha ha, yeah I'd like to meet the guy/gal that refused to turn their car in. "Oh I'll just drive mine until they tell me my new engine is here."
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Wouldn't be a true capitalist without posting. There is no such thing as a "rip-off" in an efficient market. The value of ANYTHING is simply what a willing buyer is WILLING to pay a willing seller. It implies nothing about how "happy" the buyer and seller are about the price (in fact, neither party will be completely satisfied as the buyer will always wish he could pay less and the seller will always wish he had received more). The fact that Porsche is actively selling cars simply indicates that they have accurately determined 1.) what they are willing to sell their own cars for (a given) and 2.) the price a sufficient number of buyers are willing to pay. If it was truly a "rip-off", no cars would move and Porsche would be forced to either 1.) go out of business or 2.) lower the price to the point that sufficient customers are willing to pay. End of story.
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Last night I brought out the miata out of it's hibernation, while dropping off my 911. My first thought after 30 seconds was that the 911 didn't give me 5x the driving pleasure. Heck, I actually felt better in the Miata on my way home, zipping down the west side highway. Smiles/dollar is lost by the 911.
But then after I parked the miata and while waiting for the elevator, I convinced myself "but the 911 is better on the track".
Zipping around town, I will definitely choose the Miata. You can use its rpm and enjoy it. The 911 comparatively felt heavy, limited and just plain frustrating. Dynamically, the track is really the only place you can appreciate the 911 for longer than five seconds, at least legally for a city-dweller which sometimes makes me consider moving to LA and driving Mulholland often. So that's my fault for driving it in a city, but that's why there are tracks.
So I very much agree that the options are expensive, and many should be standard (or no-cost options like a footwell net or ashtray) for a performance vehicle in the year 2014.
The laws of supply and demand as well as market dictate this, but it would be an easier pill to swallow if the base price was lower, or if the options didn't have such insane markups.
While an optioned 911 may not be worth the smiles/dollar, I know it to deliver well in performance/dollar, so I believe that is what is generally going on - Porsche engineering delivers performance, Porsche Design delivers style, Porsche marketing makes you want/pay for "extras" and extras.
Buyers end up paying a lot for expensive factory-installed options.
Simple Solution: more reputable, quality apple-approved third-party options available, with easy to install or shop/installation facilities.
Imagine the Porsche website being similar to apple's, with reviews and guaranteed compatability, and Porsche stuck to car building; Burmesters wouldn't cost that much and third-party seats would be as simple as getting an iPhone case.
991/50 C2S 7MT X51 SPASM PDCC
But then after I parked the miata and while waiting for the elevator, I convinced myself "but the 911 is better on the track".
Zipping around town, I will definitely choose the Miata. You can use its rpm and enjoy it. The 911 comparatively felt heavy, limited and just plain frustrating. Dynamically, the track is really the only place you can appreciate the 911 for longer than five seconds, at least legally for a city-dweller which sometimes makes me consider moving to LA and driving Mulholland often. So that's my fault for driving it in a city, but that's why there are tracks.
So I very much agree that the options are expensive, and many should be standard (or no-cost options like a footwell net or ashtray) for a performance vehicle in the year 2014.
The laws of supply and demand as well as market dictate this, but it would be an easier pill to swallow if the base price was lower, or if the options didn't have such insane markups.
While an optioned 911 may not be worth the smiles/dollar, I know it to deliver well in performance/dollar, so I believe that is what is generally going on - Porsche engineering delivers performance, Porsche Design delivers style, Porsche marketing makes you want/pay for "extras" and extras.
Buyers end up paying a lot for expensive factory-installed options.
Simple Solution: more reputable, quality apple-approved third-party options available, with easy to install or shop/installation facilities.
Imagine the Porsche website being similar to apple's, with reviews and guaranteed compatability, and Porsche stuck to car building; Burmesters wouldn't cost that much and third-party seats would be as simple as getting an iPhone case.
991/50 C2S 7MT X51 SPASM PDCC
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Last night I brought out the miata out of it's hibernation, while dropping off my 911. My first thought after 30 seconds was that the 911 didn't give me 5x the driving pleasure. Heck, I actually felt better in the Miata on my way home, zipping down the west side highway. Smiles/dollar is lost by the 911.
But then after I parked the miata and while waiting for the elevator, I convinced myself "but the 911 is better on the track".
Zipping around town, I will definitely choose the Miata. You can use its rpm and enjoy it. The 911 comparatively felt heavy, limited and just plain frustrating. Dynamically, the track is really the only place you can appreciate the 911 for longer than five seconds, at least legally for a city-dweller which sometimes makes me consider moving to LA and driving Mulholland often. So that's my fault for driving it in a city, but that's why there are tracks.
So I very much agree that the options are expensive, and many should be standard (or no-cost options like a footwell net or ashtray) for a performance vehicle in the year 2014.
The laws of supply and demand as well as market dictate this, but it would be an easier pill to swallow if the base price was lower, or if the options didn't have such insane markups.
While an optioned 911 may not be worth the smiles/dollar, I know it to deliver well in performance/dollar, so I believe that is what is generally going on - Porsche engineering delivers performance, Porsche Design delivers style, Porsche marketing makes you want/pay for "extras" and extras.
Buyers end up paying a lot for expensive factory-installed options.
Simple Solution: more reputable, quality apple-approved third-party options available, with easy to install or shop/installation facilities.
Imagine the Porsche website being similar to apple's, with reviews and guaranteed compatability, and Porsche stuck to car building; Burmesters wouldn't cost that much and third-party seats would be as simple as getting an iPhone case.
991/50 C2S 7MT X51 SPASM PDCC
But then after I parked the miata and while waiting for the elevator, I convinced myself "but the 911 is better on the track".
Zipping around town, I will definitely choose the Miata. You can use its rpm and enjoy it. The 911 comparatively felt heavy, limited and just plain frustrating. Dynamically, the track is really the only place you can appreciate the 911 for longer than five seconds, at least legally for a city-dweller which sometimes makes me consider moving to LA and driving Mulholland often. So that's my fault for driving it in a city, but that's why there are tracks.
So I very much agree that the options are expensive, and many should be standard (or no-cost options like a footwell net or ashtray) for a performance vehicle in the year 2014.
The laws of supply and demand as well as market dictate this, but it would be an easier pill to swallow if the base price was lower, or if the options didn't have such insane markups.
While an optioned 911 may not be worth the smiles/dollar, I know it to deliver well in performance/dollar, so I believe that is what is generally going on - Porsche engineering delivers performance, Porsche Design delivers style, Porsche marketing makes you want/pay for "extras" and extras.
Buyers end up paying a lot for expensive factory-installed options.
Simple Solution: more reputable, quality apple-approved third-party options available, with easy to install or shop/installation facilities.
Imagine the Porsche website being similar to apple's, with reviews and guaranteed compatability, and Porsche stuck to car building; Burmesters wouldn't cost that much and third-party seats would be as simple as getting an iPhone case.
991/50 C2S 7MT X51 SPASM PDCC
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Wouldn't be a true capitalist without posting. There is no such thing as a "rip-off" in an efficient market. The value of ANYTHING is simply what a willing buyer is WILLING to pay a willing seller. It implies nothing about how "happy" the buyer and seller are about the price (in fact, neither party will be completely satisfied as the buyer will always wish he could pay less and the seller will always wish he had received more). The fact that Porsche is actively selling cars simply indicates that they have accurately determined 1.) what they are willing to sell their own cars for (a given) and 2.) the price a sufficient number of buyers are willing to pay. If it was truly a "rip-off", no cars would move and Porsche would be forced to either 1.) go out of business or 2.) lower the price to the point that sufficient customers are willing to pay. End of story.
It is absolutely baffling that so few people appear to understand this ^^^^.
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Long after the price is forgotten, the quality remains. Yes it hurt to write the check but honestly, I haven't regretted my C2S purchase for a second - and frankly that's a bit surprising but the truth. I feel honored to be able to afford the car and enjoy every bloody second that I'm behind the wheel. You knew what the price was upfront and still decided to make the purchase. I'm really not understanding where this is all coming from. You vote with your wallet and you voted YES. Enjoy my friend, life is short.
I get but resent the steak analogy. A Volkswagen is a steak. To me a Porsche 991 has the complexity and experience factor of a 7 course meal in a Michelin star restaurant !
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I've got the same fact pattern as the OP -- got an SQ5 for the wife over the holidays, maxed out the options for 63k or so. Simply amazing what it comes with. I love the thing, even if she's yearning for a Macan instead.
Anyway, I think there are two issues here, or at least a sub-issue to the main one: (1) Does it come standard with perks that cheaper cars enjoy, or can you get them as a la carte options for a reasonable price? (2) If not, can you get them at all?
It's too bad that the SQ5 has options and gizmos that I couldn't get in my 911 at ANY price. The rolling WiFi hotspot and Google Earth setup in the Audi is slick and cutting edge, so Porsche can be forgiven for not letting it trickle up (or sideways, if you ask folks in the Audi department) into their cars yet.
But no backup cam in a 2014 model, at any price, let alone what I paid? When they've been standard in numerous cheap cars for years? It's my one lonely gripe about my otherwise perfect car.
I understand the scorn for lane assist, adaptive cruise control, etc., but backup cams are in a different category. They make driving safer, easier, and less stressful, every single day. Anyone who lumps them into the category of voice-activated crap we don't need in a pure sports car is in denial. Yes, I know all 2015 911s can now spec them out, but that just makes it more painful for 2014s.
Anyway, I think there are two issues here, or at least a sub-issue to the main one: (1) Does it come standard with perks that cheaper cars enjoy, or can you get them as a la carte options for a reasonable price? (2) If not, can you get them at all?
It's too bad that the SQ5 has options and gizmos that I couldn't get in my 911 at ANY price. The rolling WiFi hotspot and Google Earth setup in the Audi is slick and cutting edge, so Porsche can be forgiven for not letting it trickle up (or sideways, if you ask folks in the Audi department) into their cars yet.
But no backup cam in a 2014 model, at any price, let alone what I paid? When they've been standard in numerous cheap cars for years? It's my one lonely gripe about my otherwise perfect car.
I understand the scorn for lane assist, adaptive cruise control, etc., but backup cams are in a different category. They make driving safer, easier, and less stressful, every single day. Anyone who lumps them into the category of voice-activated crap we don't need in a pure sports car is in denial. Yes, I know all 2015 911s can now spec them out, but that just makes it more painful for 2014s.
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I've got the same fact pattern as the OP -- got an SQ5 for the wife over the holidays, maxed out the options for 63k or so. Simply amazing what it comes with. I love the thing, even if she's yearning for a Macan instead. Anyway, I think there are two issues here, or at least a sub-issue to the main one: (1) Does it come standard with perks that cheaper cars enjoy, or can you get them as a la carte options for a reasonable price? (2) If not, can you get them at all? It's too bad that the SQ5 has options and gizmos that I couldn't get in my 911 at ANY price. The rolling WiFi hotspot and Google Earth setup in the Audi is slick and cutting edge, so Porsche can be forgiven for not letting it trickle up (or sideways, if you ask folks in the Audi department) into their cars yet. But no backup cam in a 2014 model, at any price, let alone what I paid? When they've been standard in numerous cheap cars for years? It's my one lonely gripe about my otherwise perfect car. I understand the scorn for lane assist, adaptive cruise control, etc., but backup cams are in a different category. They make driving safer, easier, and less stressful, every single day. Anyone who lumps them into the category of voice-activated crap we don't need in a pure sports car is in denial. Yes, I know all 2015 911s can now spec them out, but that just makes it more painful for 2014s.