the reason for turbos again was....what?
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That is what they tell me too, but if you read industry news, there is a trend away from sports cars. Porsche saw this coming more than a decade ago and survived by catering to market segments (and markets) that could keep them profitable. That means Cayenne, Panamera, Macan and who knows what will be next. If 911 sales are going down here because allocations are going to China, that is because that is where the market is growing and where future sales are. We'll still get cars, but they won't be designed with our market in mind (primarily).
And ... for the record, Porsche isn't the only car company catering to China. GM announced that for the first time last year, they sold more cars in China than in the US. If China wasn't such a good market for GM, I doubt it would have recovered after the recession in 2008. It would have gone broke. It wouldn't surprise me to see more features desirable in China making it into NA spec cars (at least built into the architecture). Of course, China doesn't buy trucks and other very large SUVs, something Americans are gaga over until the next spike in oil prices.
And ... for the record, Porsche isn't the only car company catering to China. GM announced that for the first time last year, they sold more cars in China than in the US. If China wasn't such a good market for GM, I doubt it would have recovered after the recession in 2008. It would have gone broke. It wouldn't surprise me to see more features desirable in China making it into NA spec cars (at least built into the architecture). Of course, China doesn't buy trucks and other very large SUVs, something Americans are gaga over until the next spike in oil prices.
Last edited by 911BOY; Mar 3, 2017 at 08:44 AM.
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It's not my intention, on the contrary!
I'm happy Porsche is selling a variety of models. It keeps the development of the 911 going.
Some people don't like the fact that China is responsible for some of the design choices at Porsche. I feel the opposite. If Porsche is successful, we get to keep trading our cars on improved models every 3 years. If they weren't, there wouldn't be any improvements.
Look at VW. Hit with billions in fines and lagging sales, how much innovation will be coming out of that division over the next 5 years.
At Porsche ... Its all good!
I'm happy Porsche is selling a variety of models. It keeps the development of the 911 going.
Some people don't like the fact that China is responsible for some of the design choices at Porsche. I feel the opposite. If Porsche is successful, we get to keep trading our cars on improved models every 3 years. If they weren't, there wouldn't be any improvements.
Look at VW. Hit with billions in fines and lagging sales, how much innovation will be coming out of that division over the next 5 years.
At Porsche ... Its all good!
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They are both good, they just changed the character with the .2. The ride is great as you can have a smooth trip, then adjust it and you're back to the .1 ride when you want to be sporty. I haven't seen yet where you change the cabin sound. Perhaps the PSE would bring it back slightly.
ChuckJ
ChuckJ
Last edited by ChuckJ; Mar 3, 2017 at 12:02 PM.
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OP chiming back in
I agree the suspension on the .2 car is great. But the exhaust remains an issue for me.
Quick background story: Friend of mine got a 997.1 GT3 with a full Fabspeed exhaust, cats and all. It sounded somewhat like a nascar coming and going. No exaggeration, you could hear him coming a 1/2 mile away. He loved it. I thought it was too much - at the time.... Back then I was driving a base manual 997.2 which was more visceral than the 991s. Now that I'm in the 991.2 with cooled seats, glass roof, improved suspension etc... I am yearning for a bit more attitude in the car. The car looks sensational. The handling is extraordinary. But I wish the exhaust was more mechanical and had more gravitas (read...bass) so that the car would be more entertaining at legal speeds. Its too cool driving an air-cooled car around in 1st, 2nd gear in town with that intoxicating noise. That scratches the itch, for me, as did my 997.2 and 991.1 manuals with PSE (no comments about getting an air cooled car please, I'm 6'6" and DD my 911). But I feel that the new car is, by 911 standards, a little ordinary at legal speeds around town. It's almost too good. So to compensate for its complaint behavior, I think a mildy evil exhaust and engine note would balance out the package nicely.
I'll be listening to all the aftermarket exhaust options, but I think its very hard to modify the partially open throttle engine noise in the lower to mid rev range on a turbo engine...?
There's also another engineering variable that seems less racy on the new car and that is the degree of engine braking. Not sure what the mechanical variables are - differential or flywheel? But the car should slow down a little more than it does when you lift. When it coasts too much its a luxury car - automatic transmission feeling IMHO. Its a bit of a disconnect between car and driver.
Just to clarify, the 991.2 is an excellent car and a great 911. My criticisms are meant to be constructive.
DRP
Quick background story: Friend of mine got a 997.1 GT3 with a full Fabspeed exhaust, cats and all. It sounded somewhat like a nascar coming and going. No exaggeration, you could hear him coming a 1/2 mile away. He loved it. I thought it was too much - at the time.... Back then I was driving a base manual 997.2 which was more visceral than the 991s. Now that I'm in the 991.2 with cooled seats, glass roof, improved suspension etc... I am yearning for a bit more attitude in the car. The car looks sensational. The handling is extraordinary. But I wish the exhaust was more mechanical and had more gravitas (read...bass) so that the car would be more entertaining at legal speeds. Its too cool driving an air-cooled car around in 1st, 2nd gear in town with that intoxicating noise. That scratches the itch, for me, as did my 997.2 and 991.1 manuals with PSE (no comments about getting an air cooled car please, I'm 6'6" and DD my 911). But I feel that the new car is, by 911 standards, a little ordinary at legal speeds around town. It's almost too good. So to compensate for its complaint behavior, I think a mildy evil exhaust and engine note would balance out the package nicely.
I'll be listening to all the aftermarket exhaust options, but I think its very hard to modify the partially open throttle engine noise in the lower to mid rev range on a turbo engine...?
There's also another engineering variable that seems less racy on the new car and that is the degree of engine braking. Not sure what the mechanical variables are - differential or flywheel? But the car should slow down a little more than it does when you lift. When it coasts too much its a luxury car - automatic transmission feeling IMHO. Its a bit of a disconnect between car and driver.
Just to clarify, the 991.2 is an excellent car and a great 911. My criticisms are meant to be constructive.
DRP
Last edited by drspeed; Mar 8, 2017 at 12:52 PM.
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My concerns exactly. I have my Volt for when I want quiet*.
ChuckJ
*I'm not comparing a Volt to a 991.2 in any other area and even then it's a slight exaggeration.
ChuckJ
*I'm not comparing a Volt to a 991.2 in any other area and even then it's a slight exaggeration.
Last edited by ChuckJ; Mar 8, 2017 at 12:43 PM.
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I agree the suspension on the .2 car is great. But the exhaust remains an issue for me.
Quick background story: Friend of mine got a 997.1 GT3 with a full Fabspeed exhaust, cats and all. It sounded somewhat like a nascar coming and going. No exaggeration, you could hear him coming a 1/2 mile away. He loved it. I thought it was too much - at the time.... Back then I was driving a base manual 997.2 which was more visceral than the 991s. Now that I'm in the 991.2 with cooled seats, glass roof, improved suspension etc... I am yearning for a bit more attitude in the car. The car looks sensational. The handling is extraordinary. But I wish the exhaust was more mechanical and had more gravitas (read...bass) so that the car would be more entertaining at legal speeds. Its too cool driving an air-cooled car around in 1st, 2nd gear in town with that intoxicating noise. That scratches the itch, for me, as did my 997.2 and 991.1 manuals with PSE (no comments about getting an air cooled car please, I'm 6'6" and DD my 911). But I feel that the new car is, by 911 standards, a little ordinary at legal speeds around town. It's almost too good. So to compensate for its complaint behavior, I think a mildy evil exhaust and engine note would balance out the package nicely.
I'll be listening to all the aftermarket exhaust options, but I think its very hard to modify the partially open throttle engine noise in the lower to mid rev range on a turbo engine...?
There's also another engineering variable that seems less racy on the new car and that is the degree of engine braking. Not sure what the mechanical variables are - differential or flywheel? But the car should slow down a little more than it does when you lift. When it coasts too much its a luxury car - automatic transmission feeling IMHO. Its a bit of a disconnect between car and driver.
Just to clarify, the 991.2 is an excellent car and a great 911. My criticisms are meant to be constructive.
DRP
Quick background story: Friend of mine got a 997.1 GT3 with a full Fabspeed exhaust, cats and all. It sounded somewhat like a nascar coming and going. No exaggeration, you could hear him coming a 1/2 mile away. He loved it. I thought it was too much - at the time.... Back then I was driving a base manual 997.2 which was more visceral than the 991s. Now that I'm in the 991.2 with cooled seats, glass roof, improved suspension etc... I am yearning for a bit more attitude in the car. The car looks sensational. The handling is extraordinary. But I wish the exhaust was more mechanical and had more gravitas (read...bass) so that the car would be more entertaining at legal speeds. Its too cool driving an air-cooled car around in 1st, 2nd gear in town with that intoxicating noise. That scratches the itch, for me, as did my 997.2 and 991.1 manuals with PSE (no comments about getting an air cooled car please, I'm 6'6" and DD my 911). But I feel that the new car is, by 911 standards, a little ordinary at legal speeds around town. It's almost too good. So to compensate for its complaint behavior, I think a mildy evil exhaust and engine note would balance out the package nicely.
I'll be listening to all the aftermarket exhaust options, but I think its very hard to modify the partially open throttle engine noise in the lower to mid rev range on a turbo engine...?
There's also another engineering variable that seems less racy on the new car and that is the degree of engine braking. Not sure what the mechanical variables are - differential or flywheel? But the car should slow down a little more than it does when you lift. When it coasts too much its a luxury car - automatic transmission feeling IMHO. Its a bit of a disconnect between car and driver.
Just to clarify, the 991.2 is an excellent car and a great 911. My criticisms are meant to be constructive.
DRP
I'm self conscious enough about the prospect of driving the car, I'd prefer not to announce to the neighbours every time I start it or drive it down the street. That's just me, of course.
As to the coasting with PDK. My understanding is that is a fuel saver feature, but I thought it is defeated when you put the car in "Sport" mode. Have you tried that? You should then get the characteristic engine braking you are looking for.
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I guess I'm the odd guy out on this topic. I just want my car to go fast, handle well and make as little fuss about it as possible. I ordered my car with PSE because everyone, including the dealer says it is a must have option. So, I'll probably drive around with the defeat button pressed most of the time and the next owner will value the car because it has the option to make more noise.
I'm self conscious enough about the prospect of driving the car, I'd prefer not to announce to the neighbours every time I start it or drive it down the street. That's just me, of course.
As to the coasting with PDK. My understanding is that is a fuel saver feature, but I thought it is defeated when you put the car in "Sport" mode. Have you tried that? You should then get the characteristic engine braking you are looking for.
I'm self conscious enough about the prospect of driving the car, I'd prefer not to announce to the neighbours every time I start it or drive it down the street. That's just me, of course.
As to the coasting with PDK. My understanding is that is a fuel saver feature, but I thought it is defeated when you put the car in "Sport" mode. Have you tried that? You should then get the characteristic engine braking you are looking for.
Are you driving a .1 or .2? At least in the .1 coasting and autostop is defeated and you do get engine braking (modest).
I'm with you on the exhaust because I usually have a moderately fast start where I get the great intake sound in first and second, but don't want to disturb those around me.
ChuckJ
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Grover:
Are you driving a .1 or .2? At least in the .1 coasting and autostop is defeated and you do get engine braking (modest).
I'm with you on the exhaust because I usually have a moderately fast start where I get the great intake sound in first and second, but don't want to disturb those around me.
ChuckJ
Are you driving a .1 or .2? At least in the .1 coasting and autostop is defeated and you do get engine braking (modest).
I'm with you on the exhaust because I usually have a moderately fast start where I get the great intake sound in first and second, but don't want to disturb those around me.
ChuckJ
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I guess I'm the odd guy out on this topic. I just want my car to go fast, handle well and make as little fuss about it as possible. I ordered my car with PSE because everyone, including the dealer says it is a must have option. So, I'll probably drive around with the defeat button pressed most of the time and the next owner will value the car because it has the option to make more noise.
I'm self conscious enough about the prospect of driving the car, I'd prefer not to announce to the neighbours every time I start it or drive it down the street. That's just me, of course.
As to the coasting with PDK. My understanding is that is a fuel saver feature, but I thought it is defeated when you put the car in "Sport" mode. Have you tried that? You should then get the characteristic engine braking you are looking for.
I'm self conscious enough about the prospect of driving the car, I'd prefer not to announce to the neighbours every time I start it or drive it down the street. That's just me, of course.
As to the coasting with PDK. My understanding is that is a fuel saver feature, but I thought it is defeated when you put the car in "Sport" mode. Have you tried that? You should then get the characteristic engine braking you are looking for.
I think the overall sound level is reduced in the 991.2 due to a few various factors: The turbochargers muting the exhaust (which will affect sound into the cabin), engine displacement, slight suspension mods (could be bushings-"maybe"-although I doubt this is a huge change over 991.1), and insulation foam they use for the cabin.
As far as ride, my GTS rides rougher in standard mode than my previous 991.1S - I think it's just basic suspension tuning. The car is loud, for sure, and I always hear it. When you get a GTS I think that's part of what you agree to.
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I heard somewhere they did soften the bushings, but the car is really quiet and I'm guessing you have picked up the rest of the items causing it, Chance! I have not heard they went to active and that would be very uncharacteristic.
ChuckJ
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I'll assess the interior noise when I get my car, but if it is too loud under hard acceleration from the "symposer", I think I'll just stuff a piece of foam in the tube. My recollection from the drive in a C4S last summer was that the interior noise levels are much reduced compared to the 991.1 cars, which suits me fine.
