Oil issue.........
#16
11-18-2007, 04:47 PM
So what oil are you using?
I know- I made it a mission to deconstruct the oil issue when I got an E39M5 a while ago... the recommendations from BMW, word on the street, etc, were all rather bewildering. My quest took me to be a proselytizer for UOAs (Used Oil Analysis) and to have a deep mistrust for internet 'truisms' and manufacturer's hype over what racing teams use.
The actual truth?
There is no "one best oil". Every motor is different, every use is different.
I also came to discover that what 'experts' on oil know will humble most of us. The chemistry and material interactions going on in a motor are hugely complex. They are rarely discussed simply becuase it is so arcane and difficult to study that nobody finds it very interesting.
Sorry to jack the thread.
Could I recommend to the OP:
Check out Blackstone Labs, or Terry Dyson. (Google)
Do a Used Oil Analysis- this will truly tell you what *that* oil is doing in *your* engine: is it worn, is it contaminated, is it still lubricating, how are the internal parts? any trace wear metals? bronze? iron? etc Costs $60 for a UOA with an expert interpretation.. worth it, IMHO
A
The actual truth?
There is no "one best oil". Every motor is different, every use is different.
I also came to discover that what 'experts' on oil know will humble most of us. The chemistry and material interactions going on in a motor are hugely complex. They are rarely discussed simply becuase it is so arcane and difficult to study that nobody finds it very interesting.
Sorry to jack the thread.
Could I recommend to the OP:
Check out Blackstone Labs, or Terry Dyson. (Google)
Do a Used Oil Analysis- this will truly tell you what *that* oil is doing in *your* engine: is it worn, is it contaminated, is it still lubricating, how are the internal parts? any trace wear metals? bronze? iron? etc Costs $60 for a UOA with an expert interpretation.. worth it, IMHO
A
#17
11-18-2007, 04:57 PM
Ah, I knew that query was coming. 
M1 5-40 right now, but I am a noob here (04 TT X50 picked up in Sept.) so no UOAs to report yet, no real history other than mild oil consumption.
I need to do it soon (~4k on this fill) to establish a baseline. Likely use M1 for a fresh fill, then run it 3k and pull a sample for a 'mid interval' analysis (just use a pump to suck up a few oz.) See where to go from there.
A
www.bobistheoilguy.com for interesting oil stuff, BTW
M1 5-40 right now, but I am a noob here (04 TT X50 picked up in Sept.) so no UOAs to report yet, no real history other than mild oil consumption.
I need to do it soon (~4k on this fill) to establish a baseline. Likely use M1 for a fresh fill, then run it 3k and pull a sample for a 'mid interval' analysis (just use a pump to suck up a few oz.) See where to go from there.
A
www.bobistheoilguy.com for interesting oil stuff, BTW
#19
11-18-2007, 05:23 PM
It seems that every few months this discussion comes up...the best research to date has been by Doug Hillary Post 10 Hillary.
Be careful of race oils as they lack detergents. Race oils are for cars that are rebuilt often...not typically what we do.
Oh..final thoughts...stick with the Porsche recommended oil grades 0W40, 5W40, 5W50, per the latest TSB 1701.
Be careful of race oils as they lack detergents. Race oils are for cars that are rebuilt often...not typically what we do.
Oh..final thoughts...stick with the Porsche recommended oil grades 0W40, 5W40, 5W50, per the latest TSB 1701.
Last edited by wross996TT; 11-18-2007 at 07:55 PM.
#20
11-18-2007, 05:30 PM
have used redline for years 76 turbo, 86 turbo and now in my 01tt... never a prob......uses a bout 1/2 q on ard driving for about 5 hrs.....
#22
11-22-2007, 09:31 PM
Paulie is referring to advice from Sama Shalala who has built hundreds (and seen as many fail) of Porsche engines. The guys who know engines will tel you that there are much better oils than Mobile 1....it is mostly newbs that use it. Sam put Redline in my car but also likes RP and Gibbs (about $400)
Todd K likes Valvoline (Sam does also...way more so than Mobile 1). Technical analysis will concur.
Todd K likes Valvoline (Sam does also...way more so than Mobile 1). Technical analysis will concur.
Last edited by Dr_jitsu; 11-22-2007 at 09:33 PM.
#23
11-22-2007, 09:34 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Memphis
Age: 54
Posts: 4,355
Rep Power: 282 
I will have to tell my local dealer that, they have been selling Porsches for 20 years. Damn, better call Porsche as well since they recommend Mobile and deliver them to the showroom with Mobil.
Dumb *** Porsche Engineers
Christian
Dumb *** Porsche Engineers
Christian
#24
11-22-2007, 09:41 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: MPLS, MN USA
Age: 63
Posts: 5,710
Rep Power: 464
I am not intelligent enough to know why the hell "the Maestro" insists that
I run this non synthetic Racing Oil. I know it has something to do with some additive (that very few oil
companies still use),
that has caused even the lazy people at Berkley to organize a march.
I do know for fact my heavily used 40,000 mile motor has been spun above 8000
(accidentally) and is constantly "challenged" and does not use a drop.
When I had Mobil's best "water" in my car it seemed to blow right through it.
To each his own, and no the Porsche Engineers are not idiots but we
do not know the "Parameters" under which they had to choose oils from????
MK
I run this non synthetic Racing Oil. I know it has something to do with some additive (that very few oil
companies still use),
that has caused even the lazy people at Berkley to organize a march.
I do know for fact my heavily used 40,000 mile motor has been spun above 8000
(accidentally) and is constantly "challenged" and does not use a drop.
When I had Mobil's best "water" in my car it seemed to blow right through it.
To each his own, and no the Porsche Engineers are not idiots but we
do not know the "Parameters" under which they had to choose oils from????
MK
#26
11-22-2007, 09:57 PM
There was a HUGE thread on it here a while back. I spent a large amount of time reading and researching the article/topic but don't recal (or need to) the particulars. I just know to use better quality oil than Mobile one unless I am topping off.
Sam gave me a ton of literature on additives and oil R and D....many of the Scientists were Houston/Rice U based (we know a little about oil here). sam showed me personally the result of Mobile 1 on a motor (blown) that had heavy track use. For most people's DD use Mobile 1 is fine and the water like quality means it gets at least a minimum is protection to where it is needed quickly.
Christian, Porsche is a business and 99% of there customers run no where near the power and stress levels that my motor does. The use of Mobile 1 is a business decision. For your power levels and driving style Mobile1 is probably fine.
Woodster, I think the Valvoline has a good amount of zinc.
Sam gave me a ton of literature on additives and oil R and D....many of the Scientists were Houston/Rice U based (we know a little about oil here). sam showed me personally the result of Mobile 1 on a motor (blown) that had heavy track use. For most people's DD use Mobile 1 is fine and the water like quality means it gets at least a minimum is protection to where it is needed quickly.
Christian, Porsche is a business and 99% of there customers run no where near the power and stress levels that my motor does. The use of Mobile 1 is a business decision. For your power levels and driving style Mobile1 is probably fine.
Woodster, I think the Valvoline has a good amount of zinc.
Last edited by Dr_jitsu; 11-22-2007 at 10:03 PM.
#27
11-22-2007, 10:02 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Memphis
Age: 54
Posts: 4,355
Rep Power: 282
Thanks for gracing us with your "expert" advice.
I am not backing Mobile 1 by any means
Christian
I am not backing Mobile 1 by any means
Christian
There was a HUGE thread on it here a while back.
Sam gave mea ton of literature on additives and oil R and D....many of the Scientists were Houston?Rice U based (we know a little about oil here).
Christian, Porsche is a business and 99% of there customers run no where near the power and stress levels that my motor does. The use of Mobile 1 is a business decision. For your power levels and driving style Mobile1 is probably fine.
Woodster, I think the Valvoline has a good amount of zinc.
Sam gave mea ton of literature on additives and oil R and D....many of the Scientists were Houston?Rice U based (we know a little about oil here).
Christian, Porsche is a business and 99% of there customers run no where near the power and stress levels that my motor does. The use of Mobile 1 is a business decision. For your power levels and driving style Mobile1 is probably fine.
Woodster, I think the Valvoline has a good amount of zinc.
#29
11-22-2007, 11:03 PM
I am not surprised- Oil is one of those topics on EVERY board.
You might be referring to Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate (AKA: ZDDP)..unfortunately this is getting rarer as Marty alluded to.
I'll try to find the monster thread and see if it adds to my understanding... always more to learn.
I will just say that looking at ONE blown motor and saying 'the oil failed' (not that lubrication failed, but the oil failed to 'work') is questionable. It is, in my world, called anecdotal.
There are many great oils- and I am all for looking at other options- but just like the concept that Porsche cannot be trusted to recommend M1 as the "best', neither will I trust any builder or tuner to tell me what the best is- the people that really know oil will tell you the "best" oil depends on your car and how you use it. Shell Rotella diesel is a great oil but isn't "$400 Gibbs"... it seems that people here are real enamored with cost and recommendations from the high priests of whatever. (Oil, MAFS, tune, etc,etc)
I am impressed with knowledge and with folks that share that knowledge.. and knowledge is not opinion either.
Thanks
Adam
PS You are mixing different brand oils with different additive packages for topping off? I *do* need to find this thread with all this advice.
You might be referring to Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate (AKA: ZDDP)..unfortunately this is getting rarer as Marty alluded to.
I'll try to find the monster thread and see if it adds to my understanding... always more to learn.
I will just say that looking at ONE blown motor and saying 'the oil failed' (not that lubrication failed, but the oil failed to 'work') is questionable. It is, in my world, called anecdotal.
There are many great oils- and I am all for looking at other options- but just like the concept that Porsche cannot be trusted to recommend M1 as the "best', neither will I trust any builder or tuner to tell me what the best is- the people that really know oil will tell you the "best" oil depends on your car and how you use it. Shell Rotella diesel is a great oil but isn't "$400 Gibbs"... it seems that people here are real enamored with cost and recommendations from the high priests of whatever. (Oil, MAFS, tune, etc,etc)
I am impressed with knowledge and with folks that share that knowledge.. and knowledge is not opinion either.
Thanks
Adam
PS You are mixing different brand oils with different additive packages for topping off? I *do* need to find this thread with all this advice.
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