GMG compared to ERP
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 208
From: san francisco
Rep Power: 29
Over the years I have seen many other companies (some of which have great reputations) copy ERP's parts. Finding copies of ERP parts on aircooled cars was common place in the 90s... and I guess continues on to this day.
I agree with you that public bashing usually has a negative effect on the consumer. But I also realize that after 20 years of having people copy his stuff, why Cary would be upset. Just my 2 cents worth...
Porsche Fiend
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,875
From: Malibu, CA
Rep Power: 139
Trademark 101
Being caught blatantly infringing on other people's trademarks, violating their copyrights or intellectual property clearly show a company's lack of innovation and vision, not to mention expose themselves to possible legal action. Not a good move.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 289
From: Dallas
Rep Power: 39
yes, as you can see, this has in fact rallied all of cary's customers to support him. If the negative effect is repelling all the cheap guys on here that buy knock-off products, so be it. Erp has more than enough customers, and they don't sell direct to consumers anyway.
trademark 101
being caught blatantly infringing on other people's trademarks, violating their copyrights or intellectual property clearly show a company's lack of innovation and vision, not to mention expose themselves to possible legal action. Not a good move.
trademark 101
being caught blatantly infringing on other people's trademarks, violating their copyrights or intellectual property clearly show a company's lack of innovation and vision, not to mention expose themselves to possible legal action. Not a good move.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,764
From: Orange County SoCal
Rep Power: 0
Fellow 6spd Members,
I wanted to take this opportunity to clarify a few things and respond to this post.
ERP has been a development partner for GMG for many years and we have worked with Cary on both our street and racing programs. ERP brings a high level of suspension engineering and manufacturing experience to the Porsche community. ERP does manufacture certain suspension components for GMG under private label and these components are engineered as a collaboration between GMG and ERP, and sold exclusively through GMG and our dealer network throughout the world. We work exclusively with specialists like ERP for several reasons, some of which is their experience, which is over 25 years in the industry, as well as their attention to detail and personal philosophy of building the best engineered & best built products on the market today. GMG and ERP share the same passion and the attention to detail and always strive to go above and beyond the "norm" that separates us from the rest. Decades of professional racing in some of the most competitive racing series in the world have yielded a philosophy, a product and experience that cannot be duplicated.
But in certain cases, there are companies on the market, that instead of engineering their own products to achieve a certain degree of accomplishment, they would rather blatantly copy an established brand and/or product and undercut the price while sacrificing longevity, quality and functionality, not to mention effectiveness of the product.
Not only do we see this with the above products in RSS’s attempt to copy ERP’s products, but this took place with our GMG 996/997 roll bar that we designed and engineered back in 2004. Known as the GMG GT harness bar, which we started manufacturing in 2004, now four years later an exact duplicate appears and is being sold by RSS.. When I questioned RSS directly about this they simply stated, "We are going to make the bars and there is nothing you can do about it". Well as it turns out, the bar that they used to copy was a very early design that came out of a jig that was not square and ended up being scraped and re-worked. I guess thats why those roll bars dont sit so square on their showroom floor.
As we constantly do at GMG, we went back to the drawing board and re-designed the bar to incorporate a "Cup Car X" design and optional bracing to tie in both strut tower braces, a product we have sold over the last year with great success. . Stay tuned to see if this version is copied as well.
In the end, the biggest difference between GMG/ERP and RSS, is that we test our products, whether it be the suspension components on all our GMG cars as well as the race cars we compete in both Club and Pro Racing or the roll bars that we constantly evolve and improve as we test different versions in our 996 and 997’s. This is why Porsche, Ferrari, Audi and BMW race!! And finally, the market will decide what to accept and what not to accept, but it’s only a matter of time until a companies’ true colors come through.
Let me clarify that no one is upset that RSS is manufacturing parts. What we are upset about is the fact that the parts are copied......
I wanted to take this opportunity to clarify a few things and respond to this post.
ERP has been a development partner for GMG for many years and we have worked with Cary on both our street and racing programs. ERP brings a high level of suspension engineering and manufacturing experience to the Porsche community. ERP does manufacture certain suspension components for GMG under private label and these components are engineered as a collaboration between GMG and ERP, and sold exclusively through GMG and our dealer network throughout the world. We work exclusively with specialists like ERP for several reasons, some of which is their experience, which is over 25 years in the industry, as well as their attention to detail and personal philosophy of building the best engineered & best built products on the market today. GMG and ERP share the same passion and the attention to detail and always strive to go above and beyond the "norm" that separates us from the rest. Decades of professional racing in some of the most competitive racing series in the world have yielded a philosophy, a product and experience that cannot be duplicated.
But in certain cases, there are companies on the market, that instead of engineering their own products to achieve a certain degree of accomplishment, they would rather blatantly copy an established brand and/or product and undercut the price while sacrificing longevity, quality and functionality, not to mention effectiveness of the product.
Not only do we see this with the above products in RSS’s attempt to copy ERP’s products, but this took place with our GMG 996/997 roll bar that we designed and engineered back in 2004. Known as the GMG GT harness bar, which we started manufacturing in 2004, now four years later an exact duplicate appears and is being sold by RSS.. When I questioned RSS directly about this they simply stated, "We are going to make the bars and there is nothing you can do about it". Well as it turns out, the bar that they used to copy was a very early design that came out of a jig that was not square and ended up being scraped and re-worked. I guess thats why those roll bars dont sit so square on their showroom floor.
As we constantly do at GMG, we went back to the drawing board and re-designed the bar to incorporate a "Cup Car X" design and optional bracing to tie in both strut tower braces, a product we have sold over the last year with great success. . Stay tuned to see if this version is copied as well.
In the end, the biggest difference between GMG/ERP and RSS, is that we test our products, whether it be the suspension components on all our GMG cars as well as the race cars we compete in both Club and Pro Racing or the roll bars that we constantly evolve and improve as we test different versions in our 996 and 997’s. This is why Porsche, Ferrari, Audi and BMW race!! And finally, the market will decide what to accept and what not to accept, but it’s only a matter of time until a companies’ true colors come through.
Let me clarify that no one is upset that RSS is manufacturing parts. What we are upset about is the fact that the parts are copied......
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 92
From: SOCAL
Rep Power: 44
Really???
Wow Fabryce, don’t you know people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. We purposely bowed out of this thread because of the direction it was going and decided the higher road was the better choice. But I forgot just how much you love to argue on the forums when you get your little panties in a bind. I thought you were smart enough not to bring a knife to a gun fight, but you just couldn’t help yourself, could you?
In the meantime I will strip all these parts that were previously made for you since our quality and testing procedures are not up to your standards.
Cheers,
Greg
Originally Posted by Fabryce@GMGRacing [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/gmartin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
Fellow 6spd Members,
I wanted to take this opportunity to clarify a few things and respond to this post.
ERP has been a development partner for GMG for many years and we have worked with Cary on both our street and racing programs. ERP brings a high level of suspension engineering and manufacturing experience to the Porsche community. ERP does manufacture certain suspension components for GMG under private label and these components are engineered as a collaboration between GMG and ERP, and sold exclusively through GMG and our dealer network throughout the world. We work exclusively with specialists like ERP for several reasons, some of which is their experience, which is over 25 years in the industry, as well as their attention to detail and personal philosophy of building the best engineered & best built products on the market today. GMG and ERP share the same passion and the attention to detail and always strive to go above and beyond the "norm" that separates us from the rest. Decades of professional racing in some of the most competitive racing series in the world have yielded a philosophy, a product and experience that cannot be duplicated.
Blah, Blah, Blah… You're always talking about your "synergy" with Porsche Motorsports NA. I'm not even going to type what your nick name is over there. For the love of God, Please stop with all your BS.
But in certain cases, there are companies on the market, that instead of engineering their own products to achieve a certain degree of accomplishment, they would rather blatantly copy an established brand and/or product and undercut the price while sacrificing longevity, quality and functionality, not to mention effectiveness of the product.
Not only do we see this with the above products in RSS’s attempt to copy ERP’s products, but this took place with our GMG 996/997 roll bar that we designed and engineered back in 2004. Known as the GMG GT harness bar, which we started manufacturing in 2004, now four years later an exact duplicate appears and is being sold by RSS.. When I questioned RSS directly about this they simply stated, "We are going to make the bars and there is nothing you can do about it". Well as it turns out, the bar that they used to copy was a very early design that came out of a jig that was not square and ended up being scraped and re-worked. I guess thats why those roll bars dont sit so square on their showroom floor.
As we constantly do at GMG, we went back to the drawing board and re-designed the bar to incorporate a "Cup Car X" design and optional bracing to tie in both strut tower braces, a product we have sold over the last year with great success. . Stay tuned to see if this version is copied as well.
Let’s get a few things straight (again) right here, right now. Everything you sell is manufactured by someone else. You powder coat Eibach sway bars blue and pretend they’re something special. Your Aasco “GMG” lightweight flywheel. Your ERP “GMG” suspension. Your Customer “GMG” cars, etc. etc. etc. Your cages and our cages were all manufactured by Lucas Fabrication. The difference was our jig (located at our facility) was superior to yours and our cages fit. They are NOT, I repeat NOT from the same jig. They were both inspired by the Porsche techquipment design but made to be a more robust solution. Cage design 101 is pretty much about connecting the dots. You can't get too creative in the cage world, you either make it right, or you make compromises. Oh and I hate to break it to you, but you’re not reinventing the wheel here with your new cage here Copernicus. What? You went to the top of the shock towers? I’ll make sure to call Race Car Engineering magazine with that ground breaking discovery. Your “new” Roll Cage has been done before so get off your Shetland pony.
We manufactured our suspension components because there was a huge demand within the industry that wasn’t being fulfilled. We received countless calls from ERP customers who couldn’t get product much less return phone calls. There is no sacrifice of “longevity, quality and functionality, not to mention effectiveness” with our product. How can you even make such a bold statement when you’ve never even tested them. Or did you recently purchase them from one of our dealers when you couldn’t get them anywhere else. What’s wrong with manufacturing a better product at a better price point and greater availability? Sounds like American Capitalism to me.
In the end, the biggest difference between GMG/ERP and RSS, is that we test our products, whether it be the suspension components on all our GMG cars as well as the race cars we compete in both Club and Pro Racing or the roll bars that we constantly evolve and improve as we test different versions in our 996 and 997’s. This is why Porsche, Ferrari, Audi and BMW race!! And finally, the market will decide what to accept and what not to accept, but it’s only a matter of time until a companies’ true colors come through.
Let me clarify that no one is upset that RSS is manufacturing parts. What we are upset about is the fact that the parts are copied......
Fabryce, I would say you’re the “knock off” king but you’re even worse, you actually outsource quality companies to manufacture your prototypes, promising future production schedules, only to go else where to save a few bucks. You have no loyalties, business scruples or relationship building skills. Anyone deeply rooted in this industry knows you and the kind of person you are.
I especially love my quote from you, "We are going to make the bars and there is nothing you can do about it". That doesn’t even sound like me. I personally think you’re just an angry and jealous little man that is upset because you can’t compete with us. You and I both know I didn’t say that so stop lying. Wait I forgot that’s what you do. I’ve spoken to your old customers, they all come here now.
The biggest difference between us is we don’t “test our products”? Really? Now you’re just asking for a libel suit. We also come from a racing back ground (it’s where we started) but we have now taken a role as technical partner to many high level Porsche teams both here and in Europe. But since you’ve got such a hard on for testing, here is a sample of our in-house computer stress analysis testing that we perform before our Motorsport affiliates enjoy all of our efforts. I will say that this thread has motivated us to improve our Dog Bones even further. We didn’t realize how sacred a radius was to you so we decided to alter our design, which thanks to you has yielded an even superior and stronger design. You can see the difference in our Stress Analysis Testing below.
The only thing you said that has any truth is, “the market will decide what to accept and what not to accept, but it’s only a matter of time until a companies’ true colors come through.” We’re not a smoke and mirrors operation and any local 6 Speeder can attest to our facility, reputation and commitment to this industry.
Fellow 6spd Members,
I wanted to take this opportunity to clarify a few things and respond to this post.
ERP has been a development partner for GMG for many years and we have worked with Cary on both our street and racing programs. ERP brings a high level of suspension engineering and manufacturing experience to the Porsche community. ERP does manufacture certain suspension components for GMG under private label and these components are engineered as a collaboration between GMG and ERP, and sold exclusively through GMG and our dealer network throughout the world. We work exclusively with specialists like ERP for several reasons, some of which is their experience, which is over 25 years in the industry, as well as their attention to detail and personal philosophy of building the best engineered & best built products on the market today. GMG and ERP share the same passion and the attention to detail and always strive to go above and beyond the "norm" that separates us from the rest. Decades of professional racing in some of the most competitive racing series in the world have yielded a philosophy, a product and experience that cannot be duplicated.
Blah, Blah, Blah… You're always talking about your "synergy" with Porsche Motorsports NA. I'm not even going to type what your nick name is over there. For the love of God, Please stop with all your BS.
But in certain cases, there are companies on the market, that instead of engineering their own products to achieve a certain degree of accomplishment, they would rather blatantly copy an established brand and/or product and undercut the price while sacrificing longevity, quality and functionality, not to mention effectiveness of the product.
Not only do we see this with the above products in RSS’s attempt to copy ERP’s products, but this took place with our GMG 996/997 roll bar that we designed and engineered back in 2004. Known as the GMG GT harness bar, which we started manufacturing in 2004, now four years later an exact duplicate appears and is being sold by RSS.. When I questioned RSS directly about this they simply stated, "We are going to make the bars and there is nothing you can do about it". Well as it turns out, the bar that they used to copy was a very early design that came out of a jig that was not square and ended up being scraped and re-worked. I guess thats why those roll bars dont sit so square on their showroom floor.
As we constantly do at GMG, we went back to the drawing board and re-designed the bar to incorporate a "Cup Car X" design and optional bracing to tie in both strut tower braces, a product we have sold over the last year with great success. . Stay tuned to see if this version is copied as well.
Let’s get a few things straight (again) right here, right now. Everything you sell is manufactured by someone else. You powder coat Eibach sway bars blue and pretend they’re something special. Your Aasco “GMG” lightweight flywheel. Your ERP “GMG” suspension. Your Customer “GMG” cars, etc. etc. etc. Your cages and our cages were all manufactured by Lucas Fabrication. The difference was our jig (located at our facility) was superior to yours and our cages fit. They are NOT, I repeat NOT from the same jig. They were both inspired by the Porsche techquipment design but made to be a more robust solution. Cage design 101 is pretty much about connecting the dots. You can't get too creative in the cage world, you either make it right, or you make compromises. Oh and I hate to break it to you, but you’re not reinventing the wheel here with your new cage here Copernicus. What? You went to the top of the shock towers? I’ll make sure to call Race Car Engineering magazine with that ground breaking discovery. Your “new” Roll Cage has been done before so get off your Shetland pony.
We manufactured our suspension components because there was a huge demand within the industry that wasn’t being fulfilled. We received countless calls from ERP customers who couldn’t get product much less return phone calls. There is no sacrifice of “longevity, quality and functionality, not to mention effectiveness” with our product. How can you even make such a bold statement when you’ve never even tested them. Or did you recently purchase them from one of our dealers when you couldn’t get them anywhere else. What’s wrong with manufacturing a better product at a better price point and greater availability? Sounds like American Capitalism to me.
In the end, the biggest difference between GMG/ERP and RSS, is that we test our products, whether it be the suspension components on all our GMG cars as well as the race cars we compete in both Club and Pro Racing or the roll bars that we constantly evolve and improve as we test different versions in our 996 and 997’s. This is why Porsche, Ferrari, Audi and BMW race!! And finally, the market will decide what to accept and what not to accept, but it’s only a matter of time until a companies’ true colors come through.
Let me clarify that no one is upset that RSS is manufacturing parts. What we are upset about is the fact that the parts are copied......
Fabryce, I would say you’re the “knock off” king but you’re even worse, you actually outsource quality companies to manufacture your prototypes, promising future production schedules, only to go else where to save a few bucks. You have no loyalties, business scruples or relationship building skills. Anyone deeply rooted in this industry knows you and the kind of person you are.
I especially love my quote from you, "We are going to make the bars and there is nothing you can do about it". That doesn’t even sound like me. I personally think you’re just an angry and jealous little man that is upset because you can’t compete with us. You and I both know I didn’t say that so stop lying. Wait I forgot that’s what you do. I’ve spoken to your old customers, they all come here now.
The biggest difference between us is we don’t “test our products”? Really? Now you’re just asking for a libel suit. We also come from a racing back ground (it’s where we started) but we have now taken a role as technical partner to many high level Porsche teams both here and in Europe. But since you’ve got such a hard on for testing, here is a sample of our in-house computer stress analysis testing that we perform before our Motorsport affiliates enjoy all of our efforts. I will say that this thread has motivated us to improve our Dog Bones even further. We didn’t realize how sacred a radius was to you so we decided to alter our design, which thanks to you has yielded an even superior and stronger design. You can see the difference in our Stress Analysis Testing below.
The only thing you said that has any truth is, “the market will decide what to accept and what not to accept, but it’s only a matter of time until a companies’ true colors come through.” We’re not a smoke and mirrors operation and any local 6 Speeder can attest to our facility, reputation and commitment to this industry.
Cheers,
Greg
Former Vendor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 52
From: Orange County
Rep Power: 0
Well I don't post much on 6spd but I couldn't let this one go.
Wow Greg, did Fabryce strike a chord with you? You're not defensive here are you? And for the record, I was going to make that reply post to you but did not have access to my computer at that time and asked if Fabryce could post it. Now, no one is perfect, except maybe you based on your response, but you sure like to name call and act quite a bit younger than your age but was that all necessary? And please, if you want to call me out like you did Fabryce, about how we do business, then you know how to reach me. Fabryce is not perfect, nor am I, but you sure seem to know it all and my question is......did you learn this in the real world or did you just decide to hide behind Jeff's money and just play follow thel leader? My reason for the post that Fabryce made, was very simple......to support Cary/ERP and what they have done with us over the years and to point out our experience with the roll bars. We have an allegiance with Cary and very much like his products so we are going to defend him when someone tries to do what you are doing. If it was anyone else I would have reacted the same way.
You are taking this way to personal and frankly, acting quite immature. If you have personal issues with Fabryce, then please come visit us and the 3 of us came talk and hug it out but no need to make it personal and if you want to address his post, then please direct your issues/concerns with me as I am the one who wrote it.
Respectfully,
Wow Greg, did Fabryce strike a chord with you? You're not defensive here are you? And for the record, I was going to make that reply post to you but did not have access to my computer at that time and asked if Fabryce could post it. Now, no one is perfect, except maybe you based on your response, but you sure like to name call and act quite a bit younger than your age but was that all necessary? And please, if you want to call me out like you did Fabryce, about how we do business, then you know how to reach me. Fabryce is not perfect, nor am I, but you sure seem to know it all and my question is......did you learn this in the real world or did you just decide to hide behind Jeff's money and just play follow thel leader? My reason for the post that Fabryce made, was very simple......to support Cary/ERP and what they have done with us over the years and to point out our experience with the roll bars. We have an allegiance with Cary and very much like his products so we are going to defend him when someone tries to do what you are doing. If it was anyone else I would have reacted the same way.
You are taking this way to personal and frankly, acting quite immature. If you have personal issues with Fabryce, then please come visit us and the 3 of us came talk and hug it out but no need to make it personal and if you want to address his post, then please direct your issues/concerns with me as I am the one who wrote it.
Respectfully,
Administrator
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,094
From: California
Rep Power: 1002
Gentlemen, everone has had their say. We have enormous respect for all 6speedonline sponsors and their products. I have ERP and GMG parts on my car and if it wasn't so old I might have some RSS parts too. I just don't think that a public forum debate over your differences serves any of you...I am closing this thread.
Administrator
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,592
From: In Front of you!
Rep Power: 1002
As with ALL in 6SP..... registered members will follow civil practices when participating in the forums, this will be your only warning as vendors/sponsor, the next time this happens you will be banned for five days...each additional infraction after, will increase in time off.
YOU have problems with each other take it off line...... 6sp is not YOUR personal soapbox....now or in the future.
Remember, just because you are a paying sponsor you are not above the rest.
Life is about choices make one.!.
YOU have problems with each other take it off line...... 6sp is not YOUR personal soapbox....now or in the future.
Remember, just because you are a paying sponsor you are not above the rest.
Life is about choices make one.!.
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