I also think a lot of people forget even the horrible service porsche has given fellow members. No manufacturer is perfect, hell very few are even good. It's all about finding the "right" dealership.

 

I hope Enterprise will rent the Ford GT too so I can drive the hell out of it.

 

Clarkson loved it so much he bought one.

 

exactly

 

Porsche = Understated Elegance/Performance

Ford GT = King of all Gawkers

You don't buy a Ford GT because you are concerned about being gawked at.

 

Agreed. Same for ferrari's and lambo's.
You know your car will be gawked at, you'll be gawked at, and your babe will be gawked at. Better have someth to show for the last two

 

What makes you think I don't know about the Cobra's history, including the '99 problems?

The competition (Vette) does have something to do with it. If the Cobra actually had 390/390, the press on the car would be pretty bad...more horsepower and torque than a Vette but way slower and doesn't handle as well? The actual 430'ish power number makes the car not embarrasingly slower than the Vette, but if Ford advertised the REAL power numbers it would beg the question "So much power for such little performance?". Not good.

 

so does this mean that a 450 hp Cayenne Turbo is gonna be faster than a TT coupe, because it makes more power?

I would assume somebody of your capibalities is able to render the thought that a power to weight ratio has a lot to do with how a car performs. How else would the 190 hp Lotus elise do a 1/4 mile as fast as a 350hp vette? That 160hp discrepency surly has nothing to do with it, right?

I can tell you one thing stock for stock a regular c5 corvette is slower than a cobra, a stock Z06 is another story.

Explain to me one thing, has a mustang ever been compared to a vette until the camaro died out 2 years ago? thats right, never. It is a different car for different purposes, with different price points and different people they market to. Yeah it weighs in around 3800lbs, who cares, it costs 30% less than the corvette, is as fast in a straight line and has much more potential in the aftermarket for a fraction of the cost. Without N20 you can have a 03-04 Cobra running mid-low 11's in the 1/4 @ over 123 for about $1500-2000. With dyno sheets like the following. Keep in mind there are $1500-2000 in engine mods without nitrous.




I am not saying the Cobra is better than a corvette, or any car for that matter. What I am saying is that you are compareing apples to oranges, and the Cobra is the best bang for the buck.

 

The discussion is sports car vs. sports car, not SUV versus sports car...big difference.

It's not all about power to weight. Gearing is equally, if not more, important.

Road and Track---> Vette 13.4 sec in the quarter and the Cobra 13.3 sec. Same time 0-60 for both cars. If the Cobra REALLY had the power Ford advertised, it would be significantly slower, and that's why Ford can't be honest.

BTW, I don't really care about dyno sheets unless they're stock versus stock.

And another BTW, there isn't some magic "bang for the buck" formula out there that is used to determine which car is "better".

The discussion is about Ford's "claimed" power numbers...

 

"there is NO substitute"

 

Just FYI, some people have run 12.4 in the 1/4 in the cobra bone stock, and I have seen 12.7's out of stock vette's(non-z06). So please lets not magazine race.

Just one last thing...do you think the targeted audiences for the cobra and the corvette are the same age, in the same price bracket, and are after the same thing out of a car? They are two different cars marketed to two different types of people, yes there are cross overs, but its not commonplace. All I am saying is apples and oranges.

Now back on to what you are saying about under rating of power by ford.

Option 1) Lets say you buy your porsche Twin Turbo, rated at 420 horsepower...you slap it on a dyno after a few thousand miles and it lays down 300awhp, approx 375 crank horsepower assuming a 25% loss through the drivetrain. Wouldn't you be upset that Porsche Overrated their car, and you were misled.

Option 2) Lets say you buy your porsche Twin Turbo, rated at 420 horsepower...you slap it on a dyno after a few thousand miles and it lays down 350awhp, approx 437 crank horsepower assuming a 25% drivetrain loss. Wouldn't you be pleasently surprised that your car outputs more power and not less than advertised.

what would you choose option 1 or option 2?

You also have to remember...other manufacturers under rate their cars as well. Mercedes AMG cars, even GM's SS camaros and ls1 firebirds. Does this mean they are any less a car?

The Ford GT is a $150,000 car that is compared to cars 3 and 5 times more expensive than it. I don't think there has ever been a production car that cost $150,000 that can out perform every production car in any category up until $450,000. If they did under rate the power. You stated that they under rated it because it requires more power than the German cars to do the same thing, right? What german car sans the Carerra GT and Mclaren SLR can do a sub 11.5 1/4 mile, slalom over 72 mph, brake under 110ft from 60mph consistantly, be daily driven, and carry a 3 year manufacturers warantee. I counted none, how bout you?

This will be my last attempt of trying to give your ford hating mind a chance to comprehend the undesirable, so please take my advise with all you want to comprehend from it, and have a nice day.

 

Like you're the only one here who goes to the drag strip.

I mention the magazine tests because it' in print, and the times I see at the drag strip I can't back up with time slips (don't have them).

The point is the Cobra would not perform the way it does if it had 390 hp.

And there is a difference between your Turbo power number examples, and Ford intentionally building an engine that they KNOW has more power than they are going to advertise. My neighbor's '03 Cobra dynos just over 400 hp stock, so there is WAY more power there than they advertise.

BTW, I don't hate Fords, or Cobras. Lots of my friends drive Cobras; but I'd never own one, even if it did the quarter in 7 sec. For me, there is way more to a car than just it's performance numbers.

 

If we're talking about a bone stock 2003/04 Cobra vs a bone stock non-Z06 Corvette at the drag strip, the Cobra will win 9 out of 10 all day long with equal drivers.

 

Not from what I've seen at the drag strip.

 

and the problems begin

HOT OFF THE PRESS 05 Mustang stop shipment
Ford Orders Stop Shipment Of 2005 Trucks, Mustang Due To Defective Engines -
Ford GT "40" Alleged To Have Defective Cylinder Heads
07 September 2004
Dearborn, Michigan.
Robert Lane

Sources at one of Ford's engine plants told BlueOvalNews that Ford Motor Company has instructed assembly plants to stop shipping certain 2005 model year vehicles because they can contain defective 4.6L or 5.4L engines. BlueOvalNews was first altered to the problem after we received a news tip at the end of August.

The products that can contain the defective engines include the 2005 Ford Mustang GT, 2005 F-Series, 2005 F-Series Super Duty, Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator. Ford has instructed the assembly plants to stop shipping vehicles until they are screened to see if they contain the defective engines. It is not known if any products were shipped to consumers before the problem was noticed.

The 2005 model year 4.6L and 5.4L engines in question were built with defective cylinder heads. According to sources, the defective cylinder heads will have an adverse effect on performance and will cause the engine to fail to meet Ford's specifications.

It's not immediately clear if Ford will replace the entire engine at the assembly plant or just replace the defective cylinder heads and approve the vehicle for shipment to customers.

A Team Mustang source told BlueOvalNews that a stop shipment order means that Ford won't ship GT Mustangs to dealers, but it doesn't mean that Ford will stop building Mustangs - they can still build V6 powered models until problems with the 4.6L engines are corrected. Further, even though Ford officially launched JOB1 of the Mustang today, shipments don't occur immediately. "Somewhere within two weeks after Job #1 we have an OK to ship meeting where all the upper management on the program proclaim the vehicle is OK to ship. . . .launching a new vehicle in a new plant can have its issues. That's just part of what a launch is all about.", said our source.

In what could prove to be the most devesting news; however, is that the Ford GT "40" is alleged to have cylinder heads that contain defects in the combustion chamber pocket area. According to sources, Ford is allegedly making design changes to the cylinder head and will create a new casting which is targeted for release by 01 January 2005. Rather than issue a recall for the Ford GT, Ford would most likely issue a TSB (technical service bulletin) and repair the vehicles only as needed. Look for an update on the GT heads at a later date.