Can I get some opinions from supra owners, past or present
 

Ok so I really want a 911tt, but at the same time I've always wanted a turbo supra. What did you enjoy one car over the other? I know the supra can handle more power, stock form. For me, it would be a DD, maybe the 1/4 mile once a year, but mostly just enjoying my 20 mile 1 way commute to work. 93 octane only. The supra I'd do a single, the 911 I'd upgrade turbos, but I think a 3071 turbos seem a waste on 93. I guess I'm asking, what did you like better? I love the raw power a supra can provide, but the prestige and modern driveability a 911 can provide might be worth it. I've never really been in either car, though I've driven NA 911's and vipers, etc...I can afford either one. Which suits you best and why? BTW I'm 33 and have owned 25 cars, from a blown 01 cobra to a 335i BMW. I think my fave was my 03 evo, with many, many mods...if that helps.

Why do you think 3071s on 93 would be a waste? Itll make 600 whp easily...Thats not a peaky number either. Gobs of torque and hardly any lag whatsoever...That makes for a pretty fast/fun 20 mile commute.

Also, a single turbo Supra would have even more lag than the 3071s, making the Supra less streetable.

I have had both (at the same time) over the past year. The Supra is a timeless piece but I wouldn't recommend daily driving a modified single beast especially since you live in IL. Any issue with tuning etc could leave you stranded on the way to work. A 996tt is honda reliable and the AWD can't be beat for DD duty.

I have both now. 98' Supra TT, auto tranny, 84k miles. The Supra is my son's daily driver, and being a 14 yr old car now, we're ALWAYS fiddling with small things, not necessarily the fault of the car more due to SPO neglect. Tuning, electrical, fuel, cooling, HVAC, suspension, brakes, etc. As we repair or replace, these systems have stayed reliable. But it's a continuous process, something always seems to need attention. He's added the BPU's, and wants to go to HKS twins or one of the lower end/streetable single solutions, staying at or around 600hp. The car is fun to drive now of course, bpu's made a dyno run of 405hp/413tq, but it's no Porsche. Not the same fit/finish, quality, overall experience. But the son is in his dream car that he worked 5 years saving for, so I can't complain. The time spent on repairs and refurbishments is actually a nice father/son experience anyway.

The Porsche is an 03 996TT Tip, stock but with UMW tune and Speedtech or EBWerks exhaust being added shortly. It has been wood-burning-stove reliable. One seeping LF radiator that I'll replace myself, $460 from Sonnen. No other issues, and I drive it to work almost every day. The Porsche experience is several notches above the Supra in every way.

Cheers
Mikey

sorry have to:

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/at...f355-supra.jpg

Guy at a gas station actually asked me what the retail on my 911 was and I almost said it...don't worry I didn't...but I was tempted.

Wow great question! I currently have both (see my sig) and they are pretty awesome cars. The Supra is singled (PTE 6766 now, GT42 previous) and the 997 is only tuned but is at AMS right now getting upgraded to their Alpha turbo kit (comparable to A28's). They are both really different cars.

Full boost in the Supra is pretty ridiculous! The power comes more smoothly in the 911 (I don't know if that would be the case with bigger turbos though). I feel way more in control of the power in the 911 too, likely due to the AWD setup. The Supra with a single turbo will be a bit laggier (full boost 4k or later), so you'd probably get more usable DD fun with a 911. Driveability in both cars is really not too big of a deal with streetable turbo setups (Supra 6766 or smaller), but quick968 is right about little things in older cars that will just need maintenance.

I was not as impressed with the 996tt interior and actually prefer the Supra interior, but everyone's got their opinion on that. The 997 interior is a big step up.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. You'll enjoy either car!! :D

I bought one new in 1993 great car but I like the 996tt better=more class better made in my opinion.I keep most of my my cars stock so cant add about modded.

I had the chance to drive a last year Supra turbo with 34k miles. It was 100% stock minus a down pipe when i drove it. I drove up a mountain canyon run and down the hill. Back to back against a stock 996T at the time.

In simple: The Supra felt VERY big and heavy. Tons of turbo lag, not the best steering feel, and the interior was not up to bar imo. Really bad brake feel.

The stock 996T, even though it is heavy, it does not feel anywhere near as heavy as the Supra. It is agile, very nice throttle response vs the Supra and It felt just much better built. Quick and easy to drive.

Thanks for the reply guys, I'm really interested in what everyone has to say. I guess I didn't think the lag would be that bad in the supra, figuring that it has 6 cylinders pushing 1 turbo, as opposed to 3 cylinders pushing a turbo on the 911. Certainly full boost by 4k isn't awful, but for a dd the earlier the better. But I love the way those big singles sound inhaling mass amounts of atmosphere!

I believe I had just read somewhere that the 3071's need 100+ octane to make good power, and that running them on 93 was not going to give any benefit over k24's.

I love Supras as much as anyone you're ever going to talk to. I owned 5 of them between 1999 and 2008 and definitely miss my old Supras all the time. If you're wanting to build an 800+ rwhp car, it's a tremendous platform and you can do it for reasonable levels of money (ie: not as cheap as a domestic and not as expensive as a Porsche).

However, that being said, the 996TT (and certainly 997 variants) are just better overall cars in my book. With Supras I was never satisfied with the car in stock form and absolutely HAD TO modify the car before I started to enjoy it. That turned into a very slippery slope and I found that although I enjoyed the power that came from heavy modifications, I didn't enjoy the overall ownership experience as much as the car became more finicky, harder to daily drive, and overall less likely for me to take out and drive at all. That being said, I never did a cost-no-object build up, so in fairness most of my issues could have been addressed with more money spent on parts and tuning.

The 996TT is just a much more satisfying car in stock form. That shouldn't be surprising considering it's original MSRP and pedigree, but it's just a true statement. I've been driving my nearly stock 996TT for nearly 4 years now with a big smile on my face and only now am I looking to add about 100 hp to it this coming season. It's much harder to work on than a Supra, parts cost more, insurance costs more, but the overall car definitely feels worth it, especially at used car prices that you can get them for today.

So, in my mind, if the ease of modification to hit 800+ whp and a yearning to do all your own work is strong, then the Supra might still be a great choice for you! But, if you're like many of us, you'll find quite a lot of charm in the 996TT platform. :cool:

OP, just an FYI, Steve Theodore is very well known in the Supra community. So praise to 996TT from him is a pretty big deal.

I gotta agree with a lot that's been said, but there is something pretty cool about how the Supra sounds (WG flutter / massive turbo spooling) and the way the turbo hits. :D

Agree completely on points Steve said... I owned a pretty heavily modified Supra before owning my 911. From the raw power and silly fun a built single supra can lay down, it really has its points. But from a total package perspective, the 911 is just a better all around car. The one positive the Supra offers is that it is much less expensive to modify than the Porsche. But like Steve stated, it is a slippery slope in that once you get the mod bug moving on the Supra, it really takes hold and you just can't stop; you'll never be satisfied. The Porsche is more enjoyable to me at a lower power level because I do everything I want in the car now and enjoy it for what it is; a fantastic all-around car. It just does everything really well.

With all that to say... When I am cruising down the tollways and I see a crotch-rocket, I miss my Supra because it was always fun to egg them on and see their face when you can roll up on them.... But that feeling subsides quickly....

Both great cars honestly, but I'd rather have the 911 because it's a total-package car.

Chris

I currently own both and a lot of good points have already been discussed in here. If you want something as a daily driver, go with the 996tt.

OP, for a different perspective you might talk to 6Speed member 'SupraViper'. He has a really well built GT2 and I believe still owns an incredible 95 Supra T hardtop. Regardless, he has experience with extremely built versions of both platforms, meaning 1000+ whp examples. Assuming cost isn't the biggest constraint, he could probably offer a unique perspective that way.

Owned both. Choose 996tt every time...

great question op because they are two of the best platforms in terms of bang for the buck.

they are very different beasts and I come down on the supra side because I like the more uncontrolled wildness of the supra.
the rarity, the looks, and the crazy symphony of intake wastegate exaust and blow off, not to mention the ability to step it
out at will or do a burn out, its just a more visceral ride.
that said,
the Porsche is a superbly built machine groomed through racing, its reliable and sure footed, and faster than 98% of anything
else on the road. its mods and minor fixes are expensive but the build out of Stuttgart is so tight you would have to work
at it to break something so the repair costs are less frequent than just about any other car.

I've come to the position of having my singled supra for the summer and a
Porsche cayenne turbo for the cold Michigan months and id say this may be the perfect situation for me.

This thread is right down my alley. :)

I have owned 2 Supras. I put 40,000 miles on the first and 100,000 miles on the second. They have progressed to several different states of tune. From stock with just an exhaust, lowering springs all the way to a single turbo with full suspension, big brake kit and multiple wheel/tire setups.

I have driven these Supras on the road-course in all these different states of tune as well. As my mods were designed around a daily driver that was used 3-4 time a year on the road-course, my turbo was relatively small (63mm). The car made 540rwhp on a 93/100 octane mix and around 500rwhp on 93 octane.

I have only driven my 911 for approximately 5,000 miles, but I have already learned a lot about the car. My 911 have PSS10's with a GT3 rear swaybar, has upgraded wheels/tires and made 525rwhp, so it's pretty comparable to my Supra from a state of tune perspective and probably similar to what you have planned.

SUPRA ADVANTAGES
1. Space: Though the back seats have a little more room for kids in the 911 than the Supra, in general the Supra is a lot more spacious. Especially in the front seat area.
2. As people have stated, mods are much more reasonable
3. The Supra is easier to work on, especially after you have gone single turbo. Spark plugs can be change in 30 minutes or less. :)
4. Reliability: The Supra is just bullet proof. There can be issues with intercooler hoses and vacuum lines, but this is usually the case when these haven't been replaced in years. A simple upgrade to silicone intercooler hoses and vacuum lines and you not longer have anything to worry about. Though the 911 is a reliable car, it has quite a bit more issues. I know some people may disagree with this, so below is a quick list of 911 turbo issues.
- The slave cylinder/accumulator failures
- 2nd gear pop out
- Window regulators
- Shifter cables
- Rear wing hydraulics
- Taillight tabs breaking
- Basic oil leaks
- Swaybar drop links breaking
- Random smoking at startup (not a real failure and probably do to the fact the turbos hang below the motor, but embarrassing regardless)
- Fuel tank that has issues being filled up
5. You have the best Supra ever created, where as the 996 is a little bit of a 911 "red headed step child" (no offense meant to anyone). :)
6. Top end power: With a properly modded stock turbo wastegate spring or single turbo with an external wastegate, the Supra will pull harder and harder all the way to redline, where you can feel the 911 power tapers off.
7. Value doesn't take a hit with miles. You can actually drive the Supra and maintain the value if the car is maintained. The reputation for reliability has gone a long way. I sold my 130,000 mile Supra for $36,000.
8. Generally mods actually add to the value, where as potential 911 customers can be turned away with mods.
9. Brakes: Way more initial bites (with stock pads) and way cheaper to maintain. The 911 brakes take a lot more initial effort, though they are made from higher quality and technically better parts.

Now that everyone thinks I'm too Supra biased, here's the 911 list. :)

911 ADVANTAGES
1. Steering: Better feel, better weighting (though the Supra get better with 275 or 285 width tires). The 911 really feels like a smaller, more nimble car
2. Interior materials: Though the Supra has a slightly better layout (imagine an armrest that you can actually rest your arm on. :) ), the 911 leather and suede with stitching etc. arm much nicer and higher quality. The audio system and items like the steering wheel are much better then the Supra.
3. Looks: I know this is subjective, but I doubt even Supra owners will argue that the 911 is a classic shape that will always look good.
4. Bottom end torque: The 911 has so much more torque in the rpm range you actually use your car in (assuming it's a street car). This makes the 911 a much more entertaining daily driver. The Supra is much more of a on/off switch. Fun as a weekend toy, but not nearly as responsive as the 911.
5. Parts: The will always be parts made for a 911 as supplier know people will keep them on the road. There is also a lot more base 911's and Boxters with which we share parts than there are Supras. Getting exterior and interior parts is already starting to be a problem on the Supra and this is part of why I sold my Supra.
6. Traction: As you start making a lot of power with the Supra, traction becomes more and more of an issue. Turn up the boost and add an exhaust and 1st gear is useless. Add and small single and 2nd gear is useless. Add a big single and 3rd is useless. Rear weight bias and awd win, hands down.
7. The 911 feels like more nimble car, partly due to it's much smaller front end dimensions. When you look out of the windshield and over through the passenger window, the 911 is just smaller and more intimate feeling.
8. Pride of ownership: With the 911, you own an automotive icon. The Supra is rare and unique, but at my age I was starting to believe people thought I was driving my sons car. :) You also have to spend time telling the "average Joe" how unique and fast the Supra is, where as all you have to say is 911 turbo and you're done.
9. With 3.6 liters (vs. 3.0) and 9.4:1 compression (vs. 8.5:1), the 911 will make a much better power curve on pump gas. As an example, my single turbo Supra made around 490whp and 450wtq on pump gas where my 911 made 525whp and 515wtq.
10. Weight: Though the 911 and Supra are similar in weight in stock form, the 911 appears to be a little easier to lighten up (especially if you're willing to go rwd).
11. Did I mention it's a PORSCHE. :)

Conclusion:

The Supra can be easily built into an amazing car with serious capabilities, but it will become more of a weekend toy and less of an enjoyable daily driver. It will also never get the respect the 911 has earned.

The 911 is just a more refined supercar with no need for heavy mods to be entertaining. The Supra is a great platform, the 911 is a great car.

Just my, well, I guess, more than 2 cents. :)
Later, Steve

That was a really thoughtful reply Steve Jarvis...I'm sure it will help a lot of people out there who reference this thread! Reps for you. :)

A decade ago a supra was a cool car, at this point in time they are about as modern as a Delorean. Yes they do have some ability to make HP numbers but at the end of the day it is still a Japanese econo car. Now not to play the yuppie prestige card but even a 996 is not that dated, some will say a 997 is just worlds more modern interior wise; yet the dash layout is almost exactly the same; its just made from slightly different materials.

Now what are you looking for I ask, all out performance? That is where my mind is going lately and this is what I have come up with https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ltima-gtr.html

Great write-up..I'm w/Steve on this one & I own both as well.

Love this forum! So much help, USEFUL information and replies, my hats off to you. On other forums I'm sure this would turn into a flame war over 2 very different, yet similar machines. (I've seen it all too often). This certainly answered more questions than I could even come up with. I think the thing to do will be to ride in a members car ( supra and 911 if possible) when spring approaches and I'm ready to buy. Thanks again everyone for your timely contributions to this thread, hopefully it will be help to more with the same dilemma, down the line.

Leaning 911 right now as a DD, as it seems more practical, well, for what I need it for. If I had/get a company car then I think I may lean supra as it would be more set towards a power overkill weekend warrior.

Agreed. I have owned 3 Supras. Mild to 1200hp a stroker car. Bottom line - Porsche.

Ultima GTR is a kitcar that smell like a boat does not look good so i don't really understand your weakness for them Ultima GTR feels so 1990 ;-).
But beauty is always in the eye of the ... so if you want one just get one.
Here is a serious built one
http://www.kenson.nu/Ultimabilder/index.htm
If i remember correct he had 1000 hp and the car weight was a little lower than 1000 kg so he had more than 1hp/kg :-).
Sorry for the Op.
Have had several supras and atm one 996 GT2 and a GTR like them all, different cars for different needs. I'am no Beetle fanboy so i think the beetle is ok but not that impressed yet ;-).

Both are great cars. There are some things that have come about recently that make the Supra more comparable such as PRO EFI and it's flex fuel capability-it allows you to run ethanol blended fuels such as E85 and take advantage of its anti-knock capabilities. Some guys are running more compression on rebuilds, which really awakens the place where you used to feel lag-lower rpms as the turbo spools. I honestly don't know if the 996 interior is that much superior when compared to a well taken care of Supra interior-it does have some nicer trim items. The 997 interior is far superior.

My recommendation for a daily driver would be the 911 Turbo. It is hard to beat the reliability of the P-car, plus the AWD is a major advantage in IL from November-April when temperatures can be low and traction is challenged in a Supra. The 911 turbo comes from Germany and is right at home in the snow, although you will want an extra set of wheels/tires with winter tread on them.

If you want to build a fair weather car that you really want to get into modifying I would say go for the Supra and buy a cheap beater for your commute, otherwise go with the 911 turbo and don't look back.

Steve K.