The Trials and Tribulations of Tuning -- New GT800 Turbos
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Thanks Alex. I will only be using the 103 program, as I only use 104 octane gas.
Progress involves trial and error, and missteps are an inherent part of the process. The greatest minds in every field make miscalculations and experience failures as they pursue progress.
Twins? It would be my honor and privilege!
Craig
Progress involves trial and error, and missteps are an inherent part of the process. The greatest minds in every field make miscalculations and experience failures as they pursue progress.
Twins? It would be my honor and privilege!
Craig
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Originally posted by sharkster
Heya Craig,
First off I'm sorry things didn't work out as planned in the end. It's a long, windy road this big power stuff but I've had a lot of bumps, set backs and such along the way. It's all part and parcel I guess
To date nobody I know makes turbos spool up as fast as Kevin. He's got that down to a science. Right now I've been driving the car solid for two weeks and loving every minute of it- although I want to figure out something better for maintaining higher boost. I mean spark plugs foul (the FR6s) with leaded C16 pretty quick. Perhaps someone out to experiment with an MSD system and so on... Non-leaded and the car runs great but now with my cannons on again I'm getting some crazy boost levels (grin!) so it's hard to resist not throwing in some C16 for safety's sake. Spark plugs are cheap and even though they're a pain in the *** to change, they're better than running worse grade gas on high boost... Yes these Turbos are laggier than the 700s but as I was saying on the phone, your motor is already built so you might as well go this route with the bigger turbos. I mean it's absolutely insane once it gets going. It reminds me of a Supra running high boost in terms of the Gs and the way it pulls up top. It's smooth, not violent but the "smooth" part is scary. It just keeps pulling and pulling and pulling until you're in -straight-to-Jail-territory.
I commend you on the information you have ALWAYS shared and enjoyed reading all of the updates. It really seems to me that we'll actually have the same car (almost!) by Ventura and even the color lol so we can now officially be called Twins! And the more I launch and play with the car, the more I have to say, I truly think this TQ converter makes a difference. I'm going to test it properly this weekend and see if I can't pull a better 60 foot than 1.67 like last time without it....
The programming that Garret does is truly outrageous. I think he calls this the "crazy" file or something but if you can try doing the 3X option, so you have the standard 91/93 mode, and then the 103plus mode... That last one is so much different to the first. It's night and day! Garrett truly is talented at this stuff. I cannot believe the amount of permuations in terms of hardware and software for the car that he's been able to configure and yet to date not one car has been damaged from his programming. He's a humble guy but still a genius and I believe he will soon be tuning CJV's car as well! It seems like we've all ended up going to him because in the US there's nobody else like him for the 996TT.
Heya Craig,
First off I'm sorry things didn't work out as planned in the end. It's a long, windy road this big power stuff but I've had a lot of bumps, set backs and such along the way. It's all part and parcel I guess
To date nobody I know makes turbos spool up as fast as Kevin. He's got that down to a science. Right now I've been driving the car solid for two weeks and loving every minute of it- although I want to figure out something better for maintaining higher boost. I mean spark plugs foul (the FR6s) with leaded C16 pretty quick. Perhaps someone out to experiment with an MSD system and so on... Non-leaded and the car runs great but now with my cannons on again I'm getting some crazy boost levels (grin!) so it's hard to resist not throwing in some C16 for safety's sake. Spark plugs are cheap and even though they're a pain in the *** to change, they're better than running worse grade gas on high boost... Yes these Turbos are laggier than the 700s but as I was saying on the phone, your motor is already built so you might as well go this route with the bigger turbos. I mean it's absolutely insane once it gets going. It reminds me of a Supra running high boost in terms of the Gs and the way it pulls up top. It's smooth, not violent but the "smooth" part is scary. It just keeps pulling and pulling and pulling until you're in -straight-to-Jail-territory.I commend you on the information you have ALWAYS shared and enjoyed reading all of the updates. It really seems to me that we'll actually have the same car (almost!) by Ventura and even the color lol so we can now officially be called Twins! And the more I launch and play with the car, the more I have to say, I truly think this TQ converter makes a difference. I'm going to test it properly this weekend and see if I can't pull a better 60 foot than 1.67 like last time without it....
The programming that Garret does is truly outrageous. I think he calls this the "crazy" file or something but if you can try doing the 3X option, so you have the standard 91/93 mode, and then the 103plus mode... That last one is so much different to the first. It's night and day! Garrett truly is talented at this stuff. I cannot believe the amount of permuations in terms of hardware and software for the car that he's been able to configure and yet to date not one car has been damaged from his programming. He's a humble guy but still a genius and I believe he will soon be tuning CJV's car as well! It seems like we've all ended up going to him because in the US there's nobody else like him for the 996TT.
I "believe" their is an answer to running high boost (28-35 psi) on high octane unleaded (100-104). The answer is in running the motor significantly cooler.
TBC coating of the combustion chambers, exhaust ports and valves along with more efficient radiators will do the trick.
Last edited by cjv; Sep 2, 2005 at 03:44 PM.
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Originally posted by Craig
Thanks Alex. I will only be using the 103 program, as I only use 104 octane gas.
Progress involves trial and error, and missteps are an inherent part of the process. The greatest minds in every field make miscalculations and experience failures as they pursue progress.
Twins? It would be my honor and privilege!
Craig
Thanks Alex. I will only be using the 103 program, as I only use 104 octane gas.
Progress involves trial and error, and missteps are an inherent part of the process. The greatest minds in every field make miscalculations and experience failures as they pursue progress.
Twins? It would be my honor and privilege!
Craig
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Originally posted by Craig
With all due respect, I DID go with VERY smart people. I think most here would agree that Dan/SG and Kevin know their sh*t. In fact, I doubt anyone here, and few people across the country, know Porsche turbos like Kevin. Additionally, Kevin's prior turbos had performed as forecast, so we had every reason to believe that his Stage VIIs would as well.
Yes, going with an existing package is the easier, softer route. However, if everyone does this, our options remain slim, new, better products are never developed, and the homogenous results would be grossly lacking in diversity. Sharky, Buddy, CJV and many others have chosen a different route. In so doing, they have created many new options and products that all other Porsche owners can now use. Likewise, my project has spawned new products developed by Speed Gallery (intake plenum, intercooler end tanks and Y-pipe) which were not previously available, and which are now being utilized by many. Had Sharky, Buddy, CJV and I simply gone with an existing package, and done nothing more, many new products and options would not be available Therefore, I disagree with the premise that everyone should simply follow the easier, softer path and buy existing packages. That is certainly the best path for most people. However, an occasional risk taker is necessary and good for the development and evolution of our cars.
The bottom line is this . . . sometimes new products work as forecast and sometimes they do not. However, it is critically important that new products are developed and tested, so that the ones that work well can be made available for others. Stated another way, competition breeds invention. I was not trying to reinvent the wheel. Rather, I was merely trying to improve upon the existing wheel, and in some cases, I succeeded, while in others I did not. However, if no one ever tried to improve upon the existing wheel, or to build a better mouse trap, the evolution of are cars would come to a grinding halt.
Craig
With all due respect, I DID go with VERY smart people. I think most here would agree that Dan/SG and Kevin know their sh*t. In fact, I doubt anyone here, and few people across the country, know Porsche turbos like Kevin. Additionally, Kevin's prior turbos had performed as forecast, so we had every reason to believe that his Stage VIIs would as well.
Yes, going with an existing package is the easier, softer route. However, if everyone does this, our options remain slim, new, better products are never developed, and the homogenous results would be grossly lacking in diversity. Sharky, Buddy, CJV and many others have chosen a different route. In so doing, they have created many new options and products that all other Porsche owners can now use. Likewise, my project has spawned new products developed by Speed Gallery (intake plenum, intercooler end tanks and Y-pipe) which were not previously available, and which are now being utilized by many. Had Sharky, Buddy, CJV and I simply gone with an existing package, and done nothing more, many new products and options would not be available Therefore, I disagree with the premise that everyone should simply follow the easier, softer path and buy existing packages. That is certainly the best path for most people. However, an occasional risk taker is necessary and good for the development and evolution of our cars.
The bottom line is this . . . sometimes new products work as forecast and sometimes they do not. However, it is critically important that new products are developed and tested, so that the ones that work well can be made available for others. Stated another way, competition breeds invention. I was not trying to reinvent the wheel. Rather, I was merely trying to improve upon the existing wheel, and in some cases, I succeeded, while in others I did not. However, if no one ever tried to improve upon the existing wheel, or to build a better mouse trap, the evolution of are cars would come to a grinding halt.
Craig
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i applaud you guys for going to the outer limits of p-car tuning, but isn't there a point of diminishing returns?
between the tremendous amounts of cash, extensive tuning, and sacrificed reliablity.... is it really worth it?
i've driven GaryFL's stage 4 X50. that thing is insanely fast and dead reliable. he hasn't done anything to it besides start it once in a while and put gas in.
once you get past a certain point (stage 4), is it that noticeable to make it worth all your efforts? gary's car has to be low 12's at a minimum, maybe a little faster. buddy's car is running mid to low 11's, with a lot more mods. seems like a lot of agravation and money to gain 1/2 to 3/4 of second off the quarter.
between the tremendous amounts of cash, extensive tuning, and sacrificed reliablity.... is it really worth it?
i've driven GaryFL's stage 4 X50. that thing is insanely fast and dead reliable. he hasn't done anything to it besides start it once in a while and put gas in.
once you get past a certain point (stage 4), is it that noticeable to make it worth all your efforts? gary's car has to be low 12's at a minimum, maybe a little faster. buddy's car is running mid to low 11's, with a lot more mods. seems like a lot of agravation and money to gain 1/2 to 3/4 of second off the quarter.
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Originally posted by deputydog95
i applaud you guys for going to the outer limits of p-car tuning, but isn't there a point of diminishing returns?
between the tremendous amounts of cash, extensive tuning, and sacrificed reliablity.... is it really worth it?
i've driven GaryFL's stage 4 X50. that thing is insanely fast and dead reliable. he hasn't done anything to it besides start it once in a while and put gas in.
once you get past a certain point (stage 4), is it that noticeable to make it worth all your efforts? gary's car has to be low 12's at a minimum, maybe a little faster. buddy's car is running mid to low 11's, with a lot more mods. seems like a lot of agravation and money to gain 1/2 to 3/4 of second off the quarter.
i applaud you guys for going to the outer limits of p-car tuning, but isn't there a point of diminishing returns?
between the tremendous amounts of cash, extensive tuning, and sacrificed reliablity.... is it really worth it?
i've driven GaryFL's stage 4 X50. that thing is insanely fast and dead reliable. he hasn't done anything to it besides start it once in a while and put gas in.
once you get past a certain point (stage 4), is it that noticeable to make it worth all your efforts? gary's car has to be low 12's at a minimum, maybe a little faster. buddy's car is running mid to low 11's, with a lot more mods. seems like a lot of agravation and money to gain 1/2 to 3/4 of second off the quarter.
At the top it can reach 5k per hp.
Is it worth it? Depends on alot of things. 
Originally posted by Craig
Thanks Alex. I will only be using the 103 program, as I only use 104 octane gas.
Progress involves trial and error, and missteps are an inherent part of the process. The greatest minds in every field make miscalculations and experience failures as they pursue progress.
Twins? It would be my honor and privilege!
Craig
Thanks Alex. I will only be using the 103 program, as I only use 104 octane gas.
Progress involves trial and error, and missteps are an inherent part of the process. The greatest minds in every field make miscalculations and experience failures as they pursue progress.
Twins? It would be my honor and privilege!
Craig
The 103 program is nasty! I also think with that exhaust of yours you'll be hitting some crazy boost levels! ENJOY.. and remember to hook up a REAL boost gauge so you know what's going on. The stock boost gauge won't work or show the right readings anymore
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Originally posted by sharkster
I think between the two of us we have the California Tips contingent covered
The 103 program is nasty! I also think with that exhaust of yours you'll be hitting some crazy boost levels! ENJOY.. and remember to hook up a REAL boost gauge so you know what's going on. The stock boost gauge won't work or show the right readings anymore
I think between the two of us we have the California Tips contingent covered
The 103 program is nasty! I also think with that exhaust of yours you'll be hitting some crazy boost levels! ENJOY.. and remember to hook up a REAL boost gauge so you know what's going on. The stock boost gauge won't work or show the right readings anymore
Craig
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Originally posted by deputydog95
i applaud you guys for going to the outer limits of p-car tuning, but isn't there a point of diminishing returns?
between the tremendous amounts of cash, extensive tuning, and sacrificed reliablity.... is it really worth it?
i've driven GaryFL's stage 4 X50. that thing is insanely fast and dead reliable. he hasn't done anything to it besides start it once in a while and put gas in.
once you get past a certain point (stage 4), is it that noticeable to make it worth all your efforts? gary's car has to be low 12's at a minimum, maybe a little faster. buddy's car is running mid to low 11's, with a lot more mods. seems like a lot of agravation and money to gain 1/2 to 3/4 of second off the quarter.
i applaud you guys for going to the outer limits of p-car tuning, but isn't there a point of diminishing returns?
between the tremendous amounts of cash, extensive tuning, and sacrificed reliablity.... is it really worth it?
i've driven GaryFL's stage 4 X50. that thing is insanely fast and dead reliable. he hasn't done anything to it besides start it once in a while and put gas in.
once you get past a certain point (stage 4), is it that noticeable to make it worth all your efforts? gary's car has to be low 12's at a minimum, maybe a little faster. buddy's car is running mid to low 11's, with a lot more mods. seems like a lot of agravation and money to gain 1/2 to 3/4 of second off the quarter.
And 1/4 mile times are NOT waht these beasts are about. Take an 11 second car and a 12 second car on the highway and you'll see what they are abot.
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Originally posted by cjv
Craig,
Did you install better head stud bolts?
Craig,
Did you install better head stud bolts?
Craig
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Originally posted by HotRodGuy
And 1/4 mile times are NOT waht these beasts are about. Take an 11 second car and a 12 second car on the highway and you'll see what they are abot.
And 1/4 mile times are NOT waht these beasts are about. Take an 11 second car and a 12 second car on the highway and you'll see what they are abot.
Craig
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No they are not EVOs that installed. We are using something else. The springs we used are also our own deal.
The Rod Bolts are the ones that come with the rods.
The Rod Bolts are the ones that come with the rods.
Last edited by PorschePhd; Sep 2, 2005 at 09:42 PM.