996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

"normal wear " of rear tires

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  #46  
Old 03-11-2016, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BLKMGK
I've heard conflicting stories on this. The GT2/3 have solid bushings and I've been told moving to them is negligible NVH. Have you tried them or know someone that has? Raising the rear subframe on my lowered car would help get some of the suspension closer to where it was designed to sit. I'm wary of swapping many pieces out for solid monoball, I'm just not sure which pieces will put me over the edge for a street car
again, i'm of the opinion that the sub frame bushings ( and many would concur just not the hound, but bear in mind he drives a street legal track weapon! ) will push you over that edge in primarily street driven car. as you now it's all a "tradeoff!" off when you take out "rubber" cushy bits and exchange with poly ( or whatever ) harder less pliant "racing" bits. pick and choose wisely. gl with it. those bits would be ones that will definitely give you pause. as long as youve done new t-mounts- semi solid mm's already and tightened it up thus far,....than sure maybe...

i say overkill.
 

Last edited by '02996ttx50; 03-11-2016 at 06:24 PM.
  #47  
Old 03-11-2016, 07:48 PM
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I'm fortunate to work on a number of 996TT's, including my dad's 6tt. Suspension on these cars suffer very little NVH going to monoball/solid pieces...things like exhaust and trans mounts make BIG differences to NVH.
Forget tunes, exhausts, wheels, etc First thing I would do owning a 996tt is completely revamp the suspension...everything monoball/solid mounted with '6 or '7 GT2/3 or RS uprights and coilovers...well, maybe proper seats as well
IMHO, avoid poly bushings for any pivot points, monoball/rose joint or rubber..no poly
Cheers,
 
  #48  
Old 03-11-2016, 08:20 PM
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Suspension upgrades first

Originally Posted by 993GT
I'm fortunate to work on a number of 996TT's, including my dad's 6tt. Suspension on these cars suffer very little NVH going to monoball/solid pieces...things like exhaust and trans mounts make BIG differences to NVH.
Forget tunes, exhausts, wheels, etc First thing I would do owning a 996tt is completely revamp the suspension...everything monoball/solid mounted with '6 or '7 GT2/3 or RS uprights and coilovers...well, maybe proper seats as well
IMHO, avoid poly bushings for any pivot points, monoball/rose joint or rubber..no poly
Cheers,
Going from an 85 Carrera to a 95 993, the first thing that struck me was the ride height and soft suspension. Swapped everything out for Konis and M030 springs. The 996t was more of the same. Swapped out for PSS10 but couldn't get a street alignment. Dog bones and adjustable toe links solved the problem. The rear sway bar rubbed so Tarrett drop links sent in. They are a bit noisy, grease packed dust boots solved that. I could feel the motor and tranny moving around. 964RS motor mounts and a 997 tranny mount fixed that. A Europipe and tune unlocked some more HP and Europipes don't drone and can pass the visual smog test too. With 20/20 hindsight, I should have popped the extra $$ for a GT2.
 

Last edited by Duane996tt; 03-11-2016 at 08:24 PM.
  #49  
Old 03-11-2016, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Duane996tt
Going from an 85 Carrera to a 95 993, the first thing that struck me was the ride height and soft suspension. Swapped everything out for Konis and M030 springs. The 996t was more of the same. Swapped out for PSS10 but couldn't get a street alignment. Dog bones and adjustable toe links solved the problem. The rear sway bar rubbed so Tarrett drop links sent in. They are a bit noisy, grease packed dust boots solved that. I could feel the motor and tranny moving around. 964RS motor mounts and a 997 tranny mount fixed that. A Europipe and tune unlocked some more HP and Europipes don't drone and can pass the visual smog test too. With 20/20 hindsight, I should have popped the extra $$ for a GT2.
Now, remove the front diff, shaft and axles and put in stubs. Sounds like you're a 911 enthusiast, you'll like it much more.
 
  #50  
Old 03-11-2016, 10:11 PM
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GT2 conversion

Originally Posted by nick49
Now, remove the front diff, shaft and axles and put in stubs. Sounds like you're a 911 enthusiast, you'll like it much more.
I have thought about it. Conversion of this type usually lower resale value. But given my age, this may be the last Pcar so I'll die with it, resale be dammed.
 
  #51  
Old 03-11-2016, 10:20 PM
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GT2 made a lot of sense for 'hard' street/track use a couple years ago, pricing has changed and now a modded 996tt might make more sense now...going 2wd/GT2 parts makes modding suspension easy...
People need to be careful about using adjustable dogbones, it changes the kinematics at non-stock dimensions...


Originally Posted by Duane996tt
Going from an 85 Carrera to a 95 993, the first thing that struck me was the ride height and soft suspension. Swapped everything out for Konis and M030 springs. The 996t was more of the same. Swapped out for PSS10 but couldn't get a street alignment. Dog bones and adjustable toe links solved the problem. The rear sway bar rubbed so Tarrett drop links sent in. They are a bit noisy, grease packed dust boots solved that. I could feel the motor and tranny moving around. 964RS motor mounts and a 997 tranny mount fixed that. A Europipe and tune unlocked some more HP and Europipes don't drone and can pass the visual smog test too. With 20/20 hindsight, I should have popped the extra $$ for a GT2.
+1
Originally Posted by nick49
Now, remove the front diff, shaft and axles and put in stubs. Sounds like you're a 911 enthusiast, you'll like it much more.


Values are going up anyway, and who cares...how do you value LIVING life enjoy!
Originally Posted by Duane996tt
I have thought about it. Conversion of this type usually lower resale value. But given my age, this may be the last Pcar so I'll die with it, resale be dammed.
 
  #52  
Old 03-11-2016, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Duane996tt
I have thought about it. Conversion of this type usually lower resale value. But given my age, this may be the last Pcar so I'll die with it, resale be dammed.
I was a bit hesitant to do it but finally did after owning the car for nearly 5 years. The only thing I didn't like about the car since the day I bought it was AWD. I previously had a 996 C2 and liked driving it more than the Turbo as it was closer to the 911 experience that I knew and loved. The AWD TT was very far removed. So one day I decided I needed light agile steering and no front wheels pulling me along with the rears pushing. I bought a 911 with the Metzger motor which I wanted, didn't care about the turbo so much but it only came with the Cab body and I had to take the AWD as well.

So now I have the Metzger powered Cab in RWD, my dream car and the turbo is just icing on the cake. Before I bought the Turbo, I heard a guy that owned a C4 say the car's perfect It handles like it's on rails. I knew then I wouldn't like it at all.

I kept all my FWD parts and they are mint so in half a day or less I can put it all back stock for resale or just show the parts to the potential buyer.
 
  #53  
Old 03-11-2016, 10:42 PM
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I'd also love to have a GT2-bit'ed 6TT cabrio...would be a sweet summer road car
Originally Posted by nick49
I was a bit hesitant to do it but finally did after owning the car for nearly 5 years. The only thing I didn't like about the car since the day I bought it was AWD. I previously had a 996 C2 and liked driving it more than the Turbo as it was closer to the 911 experience that I knew and loved. The AWD TT was very far removed. So one day I decided I needed light agile steering and no front wheels pulling me along with the rears pushing. I bought a 911 with the Metzger motor which I wanted, didn't care about the turbo so much but it only came with the Cab body and I had to take the AWD as well.

So now I have the Metzger powered Cab in RWD, my dream car and the turbo is just icing on the cake. Before I bought the Turbo, I heard a guy that owned a C4 say the car's perfect It handles like it's on rails. I knew then I wouldn't like it at all.

I kept all my FWD parts and they are mint so in half a day or less I can put it all back stock for resale or just show the parts to the potential buyer.
 
  #54  
Old 03-13-2016, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by '02996ttx50
i don't think many street driven cars will be pleased with the level of NVH swapping into solid sub frame bushings. ouch = overkill.
I couldn't even tell a difference after doing mine.


I haven't done an alignment yet after installing mine, but even so, the outside of the tire is wearing fast now. My toe must be all jacked up. Lol. Tires were done so I don't really care.
 
  #55  
Old 03-13-2016, 10:23 AM
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"This is Normal"

Originally Posted by xcfghg
Mine wore in the same manner and was told it was normal, I had them replaced and alignment done at local Porsche dealer. I was told they kept it within specs and I should notice a more even wear but I haven't driven enough to see yet.

"This is Normal" seems to be the standard dealership answer for any issues on a Pcar.
 
  #56  
Old 03-13-2016, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Duane996tt
"This is Normal" seems to be the standard dealership answer for any issues on a Pcar.
Yup. Just insert money here.
 
  #57  
Old 03-13-2016, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Duane996tt
"This is Normal" seems to be the standard dealership answer for any issues on a Pcar.
I thought it was actually, "this may be normal, but some may be able to be corrected with our 4 wheel thrust angle alignment that is on special right now for only $399.99".

My indy 4 wheel align was $59.99 and dead nuts spot on.
 
  #58  
Old 03-14-2016, 09:15 AM
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As aforementioned, guys when the inner inch of the tire is significantly worn well before the rest of the tire it is likely that the toe is out. I have had my car for over 7 years and been through this. I have JICs and very low. Upper rear dog bones and adjustable toe links. I wish I had the first few rear sets of tires I wasted trying to solve this issue so maybe this will help you save yours! If you have lowered or changed your geometry better get toe links.

Finally, if the cords are showing as mentioned above and your shop tells you it's "normal wear" I recommend you educate them on this .
 
  #59  
Old 03-14-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by brockster
As aforementioned, guys when the inner inch of the tire is significantly worn well before the rest of the tire it is likely that the toe is out. I have had my car for over 7 years and been through this. I have JICs and very low. Upper rear dog bones and adjustable toe links. I wish I had the first few rear sets of tires I wasted trying to solve this issue so maybe this will help you save yours! If you have lowered or changed your geometry better get toe links.

Finally, if the cords are showing as mentioned above and your shop tells you it's "normal wear" I recommend you educate them on this .
I don't know if you read all the posts above, but under suspension compression during acceleration an increase in toe in is engineered into the car. The only way to get totally around it would be to eliminate the squat. This could be done by removing the springs and replacing them with a solid strut.

If you are getting no inner tire wear, your car is not compressing the springs on the rear suspension upon acceleration. If you are extremely low to start with, maybe you are hitting the bump stops and limiting suspension movement thereby not increasing toe in.

That's my take, does it make sense?
 
  #60  
Old 03-14-2016, 04:31 PM
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Yes makes sense but if you're toe is out of spec all the time (not under acceleration) you're tires will be smoked in a thousand miles ;(.
 


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