996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

"Low oil pressure" - Shop is saying I have a major issue

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
  #16  
Old 12-16-2015, 11:17 AM
Highlander's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 235
Rep Power: 57
Highlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by VGLNTE1
...snip...
Either way, I wouldn't drive it another mile. 6k could turn into a new motor real quick if you drop to zero
Never a truer word said!
 
  #17  
Old 12-16-2015, 11:58 AM
MadWhip's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: In My Trunk, IL
Posts: 1,229
Rep Power: 86
MadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond reputeMadWhip has a reputation beyond repute
Oil pressure caused by a boost leak? hmmm Am I missing something here?

No boost after they fixed the boost leak - they should check for boost leak again.

I know my oil sensor is acting up sometimes, it throws me a warning (Sensor) but goes back up, usually on bumpy streets.

Do not drive your car, I agree, you do not want to mess with low oil pressure, btw that's a lot of labor hours. IF you decide to drop the motor, pin the coolant lines

Take your car somewhere else, get second opinion. Good luck.
 

Last edited by MadWhip; 12-16-2015 at 12:01 PM.
  #18  
Old 12-16-2015, 01:00 PM
nitrorocket's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 378
Rep Power: 33
nitrorocket is on a distinguished road
I own a shop, first thing is t find and resolve the idle dip, If your car rolled i. I would first rule out all vacume leaks. Including facility bypass valves. Next I would make sure car has good plugs, and clean examine throttle body for iac. If rpm is low enough with engine running and key on, oil pressure warning could active because motor is not spinning am fast enough to keep oil pressure up. After the idle is fixed, I would hook up an oil pressure gauge to test actual pressure only if your pressure gauge in dash shows very low oil pressure and warning activates.



Originally Posted by MadWhip
Oil pressure caused by a boost leak? hmmm Am I missing something here?

No boost after they fixed the boost leak - they should check for boost leak again.

I know my oil sensor is acting up sometimes, it throws me a warning (Sensor) but goes back up, usually on bumpy streets.

Do not drive your car, I agree, you do not want to mess with low oil pressure, btw that's a lot of labor hours. IF you decide to drop the motor, pin the coolant lines

Take your car somewhere else, get second opinion. Good luck.
 
  #19  
Old 12-16-2015, 03:41 PM
Ringlord's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 124
Rep Power: 18
Ringlord is just really niceRinglord is just really niceRinglord is just really niceRinglord is just really niceRinglord is just really nice
First of all, how can they know one turbo is overheating? Sounds fishy... also, does the rpm and/or oil pressure dip when you depress the clutch while idling? This is very important info and indicative of bigger issues. Try it, let us know.
 
  #20  
Old 12-16-2015, 03:49 PM
johnny.dangerous's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Age: 59
Posts: 679
Rep Power: 51
johnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud of
Drain both turbo sumps, if one has hardly any oil then you have an issue, the 'overheating' turbo should have less oil come out the sump.
 
  #21  
Old 12-16-2015, 05:29 PM
itguy's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 331
Rep Power: 63
itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !itguy Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by johnny.dangerous
Drain both turbo sumps, if one has hardly any oil then you have an issue, the 'overheating' turbo should have less oil come out the sump.
I like the theory but without a thermocouple to provide temp data from both sides, I feel this is a "it looks different so must be hot". A journal bearing turbo with low oil pressure will die very very quickly.
 
  #22  
Old 12-16-2015, 06:21 PM
johnny.dangerous's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Age: 59
Posts: 679
Rep Power: 51
johnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud ofjohnny.dangerous has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by itguy
I like the theory but without a thermocouple to provide temp data from both sides, I feel this is a "it looks different so must be hot". A journal bearing turbo with low oil pressure will die very very quickly.
Infrared heat gun will tell you exhaust temps very quickly, we use ours every day to pin point weak cylinders, but I think I would be going for a proper oil flush and filter change as well as sender change and fill with a more suitable weight oil than a 0/40.
 
  #23  
Old 12-16-2015, 07:20 PM
rmc1148's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: kirkwood pa
Posts: 2,382
Rep Power: 432
rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !rmc1148 Is a GOD !
I would take the car to a qualified shop with a good rep on the back of a flatbed.
 
  #24  
Old 12-17-2015, 02:32 AM
'02996ttx50's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: la
Posts: 7,971
Rep Power: 601
'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !
^ only to add that if the shop you've been using has not or doesn't have the time to fully diagnose the issue further? again, it might be a good idea still to get a second opinion.. are you reluctant to mention which los angeles area shop you are currently using? i only ask as there are many here that might be able to refer you somewhere else local where you might possibly be better served and get this sorted more quickly. at the very least, it's something to consider.
 
  #25  
Old 12-17-2015, 05:57 AM
Macster's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 2,190
Rep Power: 145
Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !Macster Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by Vespoli
Hi guys,

I had a very disappointing call with my trusted shop that the car's engine will need to be torn to access the oil pump and see what the issue is. They don't have time to do the work but say that it is going to take 25-30 hours of labor just to see what is going on with the oil pressure. Given how expensive and time consuming this will be, I would really appreciate everyone's advise...

Background: I have been noticing that when the car is warm, after deceleration and usually when the clutch is depressed, the rpm's will drop below idle and I will get a Low Oil Pressure light. The light will go away immediately and the rpm's will stabilize at idle. This will happen a few times when the car is very warm.

I took the car into my shop to take a look at it along with a boost leak, and they told me that it was being caused by the boost leak and would go away as soon as that was was fixed. Well, they fixed the leak but didn't check if the warning / idle issue was fixed (it wasn't) and just gave the car back to me.

Fast forward 2 weeks: all of a sudden I am making zero boost. The boost gauge is reading as usual although the car was not making any power and it is clear that there is another massive boost leak. I take the car back into the shop and they replace my diverter valves and the car is making normal boost. No real problem so far.

***Here is where things get bad*** The shop says that they can't diagnose the oil pressure issue and have tried everything they can without actually getting to the oil pump. They say that the oil pressure is lower than normal not just at idle. I can ask them for the numbers as I do not remember them off hand.

Another issue is that one of my turbos is running a lot hotter than it should. And they say this is due to it not getting enough oil from the oil pump. This turbo will apparently need to be rebuilt or replaced (might as well go K16 billets).

So as I mentioned earlier, the proposed solution is to have a knowledgable shop tear down to the oil pump and see if any lines are clogged or if the pump itself needs to be replaced (~$1,400 part). So this going to cost me ~6k+ if I go down this route.

Has anyone had anything similar or can you offer me any help? I really want to make sure this is the right move before authorizing any work on the car. If you need more info from me please let me know and I will call the shop to get it.

Thanks in advance!

Justin
You have received some good counsel. Let me add my two cents' worth...

First in the case of a suspected oil pressure problem unless one believes he is capable of trouble-shooting this one should seek out a qualified shop for further investigation.

*Real* low oil pressure is nothing to mess around with.

As others have offered and I have to agree, your "trusted shop" leaves something to be desired based on what you have posted how it has handled the car so far.

You really should ask for recommendations to shops in your area unless you are prepared to find a suitable one on your own.

Next I doubt -- but I am not a professional auto tech -- there is a real oil pressure problem. The idle problem I think "causes" the oil pressure problem, symptom at any rate. The engine has a minimum idle speed -- 740 +/- 40 RPMs IIRC -- and if RPMs drop too far below the minimum, while the engine may still run oil pressure will fall. Gear oil pumps are not very efficient at lower speeds.

At hot idle the oil pressure may -- this is based on observing using the dash's oil pressure gage, which is to oil pressure measuring like a finger nail file is to a surgeon's scalpel -- may read just "1" bar or around 14psi. I do not know at what pressure the low oil pressure warning is triggered but I doubt it is much below 1 bar.

The factory manual which is my reference only supplies an oil pressure specification with the engine up to temperature and at some high RPM. IIRC oil pressure should be approx. 6.5 bar at 5K and with the oil at 90C.

As an aside, this is with the factory fill oil. I do want to get off track here and on some oil discussion but unless you have 5w-30 oil or something equally off the recommended viscosity chart, in the engine, or the oil has like a bazillion miles on it and is so diluted it looks like weak tea, the oil is not the problem. After you get this low oil pressure/idle thing addressed if you want to discuss oil that's a discussion for another time.

It is my opinion that barring clear signs of an oil pressure problem the most pressing problem is the idle issue. My opinion is fix this and the oil pressure symptom goes away. That is unless you see, or a tech sees, a steady idle or the engine is held at some higher but steady RPM and the low oil pressure warning light comes on, or doesn't, but in either case, with the tech observing the actual oil pressure with a trusted oil pressure gage connected to the engine and actually measuring the oil pressure and sees oil pressure that in his professional opinion clearly points to an actual oil pressure problem.

What else? Oh the "hot" turbo. As others have wisely asked how was this determined? Unless the sucker is glowing red while the other is dark or the temperature was checked using a temperature probe -- we used one for checking the temperature of welded fabrications during welding to ensure proper pre-heating years ago in another career -- though nowadays infrared temp probes are quite common and any shop worthy of the name - and any DIYer for that matter -- should have one in his tool box -- I question this diagnosis.

If the turbo is running hot, truly hot, there are a number of explanations for this, and on the list but down the list is oil pressure. IIRC the turbos have their own oil pump and I know the oil is supplied to the turbos via metal oil lines and is carried away via other metal oil lines. A crimped/pinched or a corroded line or some interference with oil flow at any point in a turbo's oil supply circuit can affect oil supply/pressure to the turbo.

Of course when you find another shop you will mention this hot turbo "diagnosis" and let the shop prioritize what it does and in what order.
 
  #26  
Old 12-17-2015, 07:42 AM
'02996ttx50's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: la
Posts: 7,971
Rep Power: 601
'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !
^ nice.
 
  #27  
Old 12-17-2015, 09:57 AM
Vespoli's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 35
Rep Power: 11
Vespoli is on a distinguished road
Thank you for the responses everyone! Much appreciated. I will definitely get a second opinion as it seems like there are a number of questions that still need to be answered.

I have had one person PM me recommending HD Motorwerks in Glendale.

Please let me know if you have any shop recommendations in the Los Angeles area. I wont mention the name of the place the car is currently at but they are an independent Porsche / Audi shop.

Again, thank you everyone for your suggestions.

Justin



Originally Posted by Macster
You have received some good counsel. Let me add my two cents' worth...

First in the case of a suspected oil pressure problem unless one believes he is capable of trouble-shooting this one should seek out a qualified shop for further investigation.

*Real* low oil pressure is nothing to mess around with.

As others have offered and I have to agree, your "trusted shop" leaves something to be desired based on what you have posted how it has handled the car so far.

You really should ask for recommendations to shops in your area unless you are prepared to find a suitable one on your own.

Next I doubt -- but I am not a professional auto tech -- there is a real oil pressure problem. The idle problem I think "causes" the oil pressure problem, symptom at any rate. The engine has a minimum idle speed -- 740 +/- 40 RPMs IIRC -- and if RPMs drop too far below the minimum, while the engine may still run oil pressure will fall. Gear oil pumps are not very efficient at lower speeds.

At hot idle the oil pressure may -- this is based on observing using the dash's oil pressure gage, which is to oil pressure measuring like a finger nail file is to a surgeon's scalpel -- may read just "1" bar or around 14psi. I do not know at what pressure the low oil pressure warning is triggered but I doubt it is much below 1 bar.

The factory manual which is my reference only supplies an oil pressure specification with the engine up to temperature and at some high RPM. IIRC oil pressure should be approx. 6.5 bar at 5K and with the oil at 90C.

As an aside, this is with the factory fill oil. I do want to get off track here and on some oil discussion but unless you have 5w-30 oil or something equally off the recommended viscosity chart, in the engine, or the oil has like a bazillion miles on it and is so diluted it looks like weak tea, the oil is not the problem. After you get this low oil pressure/idle thing addressed if you want to discuss oil that's a discussion for another time.

It is my opinion that barring clear signs of an oil pressure problem the most pressing problem is the idle issue. My opinion is fix this and the oil pressure symptom goes away. That is unless you see, or a tech sees, a steady idle or the engine is held at some higher but steady RPM and the low oil pressure warning light comes on, or doesn't, but in either case, with the tech observing the actual oil pressure with a trusted oil pressure gage connected to the engine and actually measuring the oil pressure and sees oil pressure that in his professional opinion clearly points to an actual oil pressure problem.

What else? Oh the "hot" turbo. As others have wisely asked how was this determined? Unless the sucker is glowing red while the other is dark or the temperature was checked using a temperature probe -- we used one for checking the temperature of welded fabrications during welding to ensure proper pre-heating years ago in another career -- though nowadays infrared temp probes are quite common and any shop worthy of the name - and any DIYer for that matter -- should have one in his tool box -- I question this diagnosis.

If the turbo is running hot, truly hot, there are a number of explanations for this, and on the list but down the list is oil pressure. IIRC the turbos have their own oil pump and I know the oil is supplied to the turbos via metal oil lines and is carried away via other metal oil lines. A crimped/pinched or a corroded line or some interference with oil flow at any point in a turbo's oil supply circuit can affect oil supply/pressure to the turbo.

Of course when you find another shop you will mention this hot turbo "diagnosis" and let the shop prioritize what it does and in what order.
 
  #28  
Old 12-17-2015, 11:16 AM
'02996ttx50's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: la
Posts: 7,971
Rep Power: 601
'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !'02996ttx50 Is a GOD !
pm sent. you should give them a call. good luck.
 
  #29  
Old 12-17-2015, 12:06 PM
Highlander's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 235
Rep Power: 57
Highlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond reputeHighlander has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Vespoli
Thank you for the responses everyone! Much appreciated. I will definitely get a second opinion as it seems like there are a number of questions that still need to be answered.

I have had one person PM me recommending HD Motorwerks in Glendale.

Please let me know if you have any shop recommendations in the Los Angeles area. I wont mention the name of the place the car is currently at but they are an independent Porsche / Audi shop.

Again, thank you everyone for your suggestions.

Justin
Good Luck!!!

Please keep us up to date with your progress and final diagnosis.
 
  #30  
Old 11-11-2017, 04:08 PM
PoidaGT's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 57
Rep Power: 16
PoidaGT is a jewel in the roughPoidaGT is a jewel in the roughPoidaGT is a jewel in the roughPoidaGT is a jewel in the rough
I had the exact same issue.
Shop told me it was internal issue and will cost $30k to rebuild engine.
They apparently did a manual oil pressure test.
I just replaced my voltage regulator and my oil pressure sender and my oil pressure is now back to normal.
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: "Low oil pressure" - Shop is saying I have a major issue



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 PM.