Best Way To Cool Engine?
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Originally Posted by Joe Weinstein
Not to hijack the thread, but to a first approximation, no oil is any
better than another oil at a given temperature, until you define the
sizes of the gaps through which it must flow, and the film thicknesses
it needs to provide, based on the gaps and the smoothness of the
parts etc. If Porsche says their engines need XYZ, you should believe
them. If a Formula-1 engine designer wants a straight 0-weight for
their engine, they're not stupid.
Thickness beyond the mechanical requirements is a penalty. As a
second-order fact, all oils degrade with heat, but thicker oils produce
more heat internally because of fluid friction (viscosity) so they will
degrade quicker in the same engineering environment.
The the degree that oil is a coolant (not just a lubricant) you want
lots of flow, not resistence to flow. No matter whether an oil is thin or
thick if it's not moving sufficiently quickly through the hottest areas
it can burn, causing deposits which damage the engine. Thin flows
faster at less pressure. So, for a given engine, at an operating temp-
erature of 240+ degrees, for instance, 0-40 might be *just what the
doctor ordered*, and any thinner or thicker might be slightly riskier
for the one reason or the other.
I'm sure we all know this, but as I've said in the past, unless you
can bear a ridiculous conspiracy theory about Porsche's ulterior
motives, no one has the credibility to second guess Porsche on this
topic, in my opinion.
Joe
better than another oil at a given temperature, until you define the
sizes of the gaps through which it must flow, and the film thicknesses
it needs to provide, based on the gaps and the smoothness of the
parts etc. If Porsche says their engines need XYZ, you should believe
them. If a Formula-1 engine designer wants a straight 0-weight for
their engine, they're not stupid.
Thickness beyond the mechanical requirements is a penalty. As a
second-order fact, all oils degrade with heat, but thicker oils produce
more heat internally because of fluid friction (viscosity) so they will
degrade quicker in the same engineering environment.
The the degree that oil is a coolant (not just a lubricant) you want
lots of flow, not resistence to flow. No matter whether an oil is thin or
thick if it's not moving sufficiently quickly through the hottest areas
it can burn, causing deposits which damage the engine. Thin flows
faster at less pressure. So, for a given engine, at an operating temp-
erature of 240+ degrees, for instance, 0-40 might be *just what the
doctor ordered*, and any thinner or thicker might be slightly riskier
for the one reason or the other.
I'm sure we all know this, but as I've said in the past, unless you
can bear a ridiculous conspiracy theory about Porsche's ulterior
motives, no one has the credibility to second guess Porsche on this
topic, in my opinion.
Joe
I think 1999Porsche911 is correct, he always is! and I listen to him!!!
NOT!
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,134
From: Chicagoland
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Originally Posted by Joe Weinstein
Not to hijack the thread, but to a first approximation, no oil is any
better than another oil at a given temperature, until you define the
sizes of the gaps through which it must flow, and the film thicknesses
it needs to provide, based on the gaps and the smoothness of the
parts etc. If Porsche says their engines need XYZ, you should believe
them. If a Formula-1 engine designer wants a straight 0-weight for
their engine, they're not stupid.
Thickness beyond the mechanical requirements is a penalty. As a
second-order fact, all oils degrade with heat, but thicker oils produce
more heat internally because of fluid friction (viscosity) so they will
degrade quicker in the same engineering environment.
The the degree that oil is a coolant (not just a lubricant) you want
lots of flow, not resistence to flow. No matter whether an oil is thin or
thick if it's not moving sufficiently quickly through the hottest areas
it can burn, causing deposits which damage the engine. Thin flows
faster at less pressure. So, for a given engine, at an operating temp-
erature of 240+ degrees, for instance, 0-40 might be *just what the
doctor ordered*, and any thinner or thicker might be slightly riskier
for the one reason or the other.
I'm sure we all know this, but as I've said in the past, unless you
can bear a ridiculous conspiracy theory about Porsche's ulterior
motives, no one has the credibility to second guess Porsche on this
topic, in my opinion.
Joe
better than another oil at a given temperature, until you define the
sizes of the gaps through which it must flow, and the film thicknesses
it needs to provide, based on the gaps and the smoothness of the
parts etc. If Porsche says their engines need XYZ, you should believe
them. If a Formula-1 engine designer wants a straight 0-weight for
their engine, they're not stupid.
Thickness beyond the mechanical requirements is a penalty. As a
second-order fact, all oils degrade with heat, but thicker oils produce
more heat internally because of fluid friction (viscosity) so they will
degrade quicker in the same engineering environment.
The the degree that oil is a coolant (not just a lubricant) you want
lots of flow, not resistence to flow. No matter whether an oil is thin or
thick if it's not moving sufficiently quickly through the hottest areas
it can burn, causing deposits which damage the engine. Thin flows
faster at less pressure. So, for a given engine, at an operating temp-
erature of 240+ degrees, for instance, 0-40 might be *just what the
doctor ordered*, and any thinner or thicker might be slightly riskier
for the one reason or the other.
I'm sure we all know this, but as I've said in the past, unless you
can bear a ridiculous conspiracy theory about Porsche's ulterior
motives, no one has the credibility to second guess Porsche on this
topic, in my opinion.
Joe
We can debate oils all day, but you do bring a good point to this thread, and that is that many here believe that Porsche engineer's are gods and if they recommend or design something a specific way, it must be the right way. That's why they orginally recommend and factory filled many of their car with 15W50 and now recommend 0W40. Which was the mistake and why? Oh yeah...great RMS design too.
On the topic of engine cooling, if the deck lid was designed by Porsche to cool the engine from the top down AND the deck fan was installed to blow from top to bottom, why wouldn't Porsche owners accept that this is the optimum way to cool the engine? They wouldn't be challenging the Porsche engineer's design, would they?
Seems to me that people accept Porsche engineer's designs and recommendation a little piece meal in order to fit their argument. I prefer to use experence and testing to either confirm someone recommendations or to disprove them.
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Originally Posted by 996TT_STEVO
lmfao! It's someones time of the month again!
Wow, your billiance is really coming through. Typical since you have no idea how to argue the other side of this discussion. Sorry that I proved you wrong on another subject a few months back, but you really should get over it and maybe then you can learn something regardless of who's opinion you agree with. Too bad maturity is not required to post on these forums...there would be fewer posts like yours.
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Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
Wow, your billiance is really coming through. Typical since you have no idea how to argue the other side of this discussion. Sorry that I proved you wrong on another subject a few months back, but you really should get over it and maybe then you can learn something regardless of who's opinion you agree with. Too bad maturity is not required to post on these forums...there would be fewer posts like yours.
Originally Posted by HotRodGuy
at drag strips to cool down in between passes i've used a bag of ice on top of the intake manifold, not sure that'd be possible on the porsche boxer's though
this reminds me of a funny story though, I did a canyon run about 5 years ago w/ a HUGE group and there was a guy in a yellow 996. We all pulled over for a cool down and the 996 guy opened his front hood and walked away. I asked what he was doing and he said cooling the car down
this reminds me of a funny story though, I did a canyon run about 5 years ago w/ a HUGE group and there was a guy in a yellow 996. We all pulled over for a cool down and the 996 guy opened his front hood and walked away. I asked what he was doing and he said cooling the car down
" OMG someone stole my engine" and smiled 2 min later " Tks God, Porsche prepare a new one in my trunk"
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Posts: 75
From: FL East Coast
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Not to be the defender of percieved total ignorance - but -
yesterday after a session on a semi hot (only mid to high 80s) Sebring track day I opened the front hatch to check the brake fluid color and level. There was significant heat in that compartment.
If you're trying to cool the car, why leave a heated volume unvented? Its not going to help cool the engine but it may help dissapate heat from the front end components.
yesterday after a session on a semi hot (only mid to high 80s) Sebring track day I opened the front hatch to check the brake fluid color and level. There was significant heat in that compartment.
If you're trying to cool the car, why leave a heated volume unvented? Its not going to help cool the engine but it may help dissapate heat from the front end components.
Last edited by g8rbob; Apr 17, 2006 at 04:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by eshaun
ill let you know tomorrow what the concensus is from any pcar guys who come to firebird...friggin place is heatin up now around the 90s already 
Also, during the summer months most track events are early morning and after dark to avoid midday heat
Also, during the summer months most track events are early morning and after dark to avoid midday heat
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Posts: 75
From: FL East Coast
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Originally Posted by eshaun
ill let you know tomorrow what the concensus is from any pcar guys who come to firebird...friggin place is heatin up now around the 90s already
Also, during the summer months most track events are early morning and after dark to avoid midday heat
Also, during the summer months most track events are early morning and after dark to avoid midday heat
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