K24's Or K16/24's Hybrids Pro's & Con's Which Are Better
 

I Have Stage 2 Already. I'am Wanting To Upgrade Turbo's. Which Would Be Better To Go With ? Will I Need To Upgrade The Ecu Past Stage 2 Flash?

I went through the same thing, and ended going with some Hammer K16/24 Zero Clearance Hybrids with upgraded wastegates. I am at GIAC Stage II right now, but have to upgrade to Stage IV (and also doing Stage IV clutch) to get the most out of them. I think after this upgrade I am limited to only about 600hp (which is fine to me right now), and if I want to upgrade, I would have to go to GT640 turbos....very pricey...but the skies the limit on HP. All of my work is being done by Stephen at Imagine Auto....great guy and very knowledgeable.

have kevins 16s they spoolup faster(i'm told) yes they are zero cs.you must have the correct program but ibelieve kevin has that. i am useing giac stage i can't remember. am very happy with my current stuff. ecargo headers,europipi loud, dvs, giac,gt2 ics,evo air box,ssk, all seems to go well with the 16s. good luck

ur question is subjective in nature.... and there is no one right answer...
since we mostly have non GT2s... our tts come with k16s... so tuners take ur stock turbos and hybrid them( word used loosely) casue Ive seen the word "hybrid" used on stock k24s...
so what u get with a k16/24 hybrid with a k24 powerband, give or take a few ponies... with less lag... add upgraded wastegates and its a good 580 to 600 hp set up.
the next step is either a k16/garrett combo turbo( liek on the gt640 or gt700 set up).... or other tuners liek protomotive hybrid the stock k24s as well for a nominal fee and u can push 700 hp out of them as well.

the rule of thumb is.. and no matter what they tell u,....
smaller turbo=lees lag=less power.
bigger turbo= more lag=more power.
pure and simple...
as far as lag and k24s.... we dont ever see guys complain about the lag in GT2s.. and yet they have stock k24s... so mabey they are not as bad as we all tend to believe.
markski

MARKSKI: Please for the love of god make an attempt to spell or just resort to pictograms....

Its the weekend and I work till 5 am at the clubs... maybe Im still buzzed... maybe I cant spell... maybe I just have too much work on 2 other monitors that I don't have the time to do spell check...
I'm not a lawyer nor a doctor... just a dumb ass Polak with a fast car. LOL

Hey that`s the way he is. I have no problem understanding him. Sometimes you take the good advice mated with marginal grammar. His insights are worth it to me. But maybe I can send him an English language tutor!!!!:D

You might want to check out Kevins stage II turbos, (k16/26) as you might now get the bang you're looking for upgrading from the stage II to the 16/24's. There will be a difference, but if you're swapping out the turbos, you might want to go one size bigger so you don't end up wanting to swap again in 6 months.

Take Mark's advice, he has been through several setups and know's his ****. His spelling or grammar shouldnt even be brought up, he's trying to help you guys out, how are you going to criticize, i just dont get it!

Anyway Mark's older stg 5 zero clearance turbo's are what im going for, probably soon Mark :) Expect a call from me!

Just a thought from a K-24 guy. I love hp and I really cant appreciate much "lag" with my car. I have straight pipes, LWFW, and upgraded waste gate springs, but still never had any complaints re turbo lag. thats why they went to the "twin turbos".....so dont kid yourself about the lag. with this cars displacement and twin turbos I doubt anyone would be complaining much about the lag. I am a track guy and so I guess I an usually at redline and on boost. If you are really interested in "drag race" starts, then I guess the tiny turbos may be better?

Stage 5s ZC are the best no lag turbos. Best of both worlds... no lag and good power up on top. I also compare these to the gt640 turbos but I have a feeling that these have more lag( garrett gt30r compressors).
My old stage 5 ZC hit 1.5 bars in first gear( if I let them).

Tom, you proved my point about the k24s.

Paulie,

As it was explained to me by The Speed Gallery when I was exploring options, the K16/24 hybrid spools faster than a stock K24, yet provides more flow than a stock K24, due to the close tolerance machining of the hybrid design.

Any idea what the lag and power difference is on the K16/K24 VS. the K16/K26 ?

If you're happy at around 600HP, then the K16/24 are awesome. I definitely prefer them to stock K24's...

I had the k16/26 ( stage5s)... it was pulling crazy even at low rpms...
I know that k16/24s duno around 570 hp(crank)- plus 25 hp or so) and the stage 5s ZC dunoed at 580 rwhp with ICs, 76 mm TB, intake, 5 bar FPR.

Damm your setup was crazy, cannot wait! Thing is Mark, i dont see how people go to K16/24 hybrid or any of the hybrids that are only good for 580-600 hp, my k16's are around there now and that's stock, why wouldnt someone go with turbo's that have alot more capability is beyond me!

Mark is right on here. Most of you guys know the lag in the K16 or K24 is nothing like the turbos of old (like my '78 930). Anyway...the question you need to ask yourself is what do YOU want? If you want to go better than 600hp then you need bigger than K16 (hybrid or not), if not the hybrids are a good choice. Kevin makes them for a number of tuners. As far as programming goes...well GIAC is by far the most popular, but there are others as well. Kevin also has his own programming. I'm guessing to trully optimize the "system" you need your programming tweaked to your conditions, but the others will certainly work. Oh yeah, I don't mind Mark's spelling either...guess I'm used to it cause I read most of his posts.

Also, if you want to go over 600HP or so, you should be thinking about strengthening the internals. At stage 4 / 600 HP just the sound of the motor at WOT lets you know it is being pushed very hard.

I thought there was no need for internal work until after GT640-700!!

iLLM3,

It is recommended by Stephen at 640. That's what I meant by over 600 - 640 is the next step.

This is the footnote on the 640 package on the IA website:

"Cars used as daily drivers with this kit are recommended to have internals of the engine strengthened."

Rods go after 650 rwhp... Im not speaking because Im speculating... greater minds then I speak so....
I would do the internals at 600 rwhp or higher.

All things being equal, for instance a stage 2 car with aftermarket muffler and ECU, stock intake and stock headers, what would be the power difference (93 octane) between K16's VS k16/24's VS Kevin's stage 2 K16/26's?

Marksi, weren't your stage 5's K24/26 hybrids?

Ahh, thanks for the info John/Mark!

This is what Gary (FL) did with his car, correct?

I have used BOTH K16/K24 hybrids and Kevin's ZC Stage V K16/K26 hybrids. BOTH were great turbos with very little lag. Speed Gallery sells both turbos, with matched programming.

Craig

Stock K-24's are "kind of flakey" according to Todd @ Protomotive,
so many better options now, like what EVOMS uses in their GT640 kit,
etc. With so many options, unless your car came with K-24's, you would
not be wise to go with K-24's... In my humble opinion! They work fine,
but many options with even more flow. I myself also am not worried about
lag--because it is so minimal in these cars when set up correctly.


MK

Wots rong wyth his speling?:rolleyes:

hilarious hilarious +1

Ryan, I'm sorry to nit pick, but you spelled "his" incorrectly.

Craig

HAHAHAHAH...dats two dayum phunny...hilarious

That's why I always carry one of these with me everywhere I go/type

hilarious hilarious hilarious

Holy crap, you guys are cruel!

nice question, anyone who experienced these got an answer
 

[quote=ebaker]All things being equal, for instance a stage 2 car with aftermarket muffler and ECU, stock intake and stock headers, what would be the power difference (93 octane) between K16's VS k16/24's VS Kevin's stage 2 K16/26's?

=-=

i am looking to do kevins hybrid k16/24's non-zero clr

my goal is to get 600hp at crank... I was told they spool faster then my stock k16s on giac and better for my goal then garrett's gt640

looking forward to see what happens with them.. oh yea, i will consider buying a pre-owned set of kevins 16/24's if anyones selling em : ?

dw

Could use a word or two of clarification.
I am shopping for a 996TT, and have two cars in sight, an '02 and an '04 X50. Considering that I would only very mildly tune the car (GIAC flash, PSS9), am I better off with the standard TT's K16 or with the X50's K24 ?
Is the lag difference noticeable in real world terms ?
Is an X50 worth any premium ?

Here is a video I've took last summer. The camera car "Black TT" is K24 GIAC, V-flow, Mine "Yellow TT" is K16, GIAC, V-Flow, Ruf exhaust. You can clearly see the turbo lag between K24 and K16

http://tunertrader.vidiac.com/catego...120018f997.htm

Was the lag any worse on the k16/26 over the k16/24's. I have wondered this for a while?

I had this dilemia as well. I decided to go with the k16/24.

Just to add another option. I went with the Protomotive 24/18G hybrid turbos on my 02 X50 car. With the other mods from Protomotive my car rolls. As far as lag: the stock 2001 TT with the 16's I test drove had less lag than the 02 X50 car I purchased. It also had less power. I knew keeping the car stock was not going to be an option for me. So I started with a little more lag, more stock power (X50), and a better starting point for the mods. My hybrid turbos with exchange and new WG's pre set was $1,400.00. Now I have less lag than the stock X50 and a lot more power. I drove the car with the ECU, 5 bar reg, Fabspeed, BMC filter, and new BOV's for a few days then had the Hybrid Protomotive 24/18G's installed. The 24/18's ROCK! I can tell you from my experience If you start with more you will end up with more for less money. ZE shark get the X50. Test drive both but in the "real" world the lag difference is not much and in a short sprint you would still pull past a stock K16 car. Oh..... and like my friend Markski, I didn't realize helping fellow members was an english test.

For me, worse than turbo lag is the turbo threshold, they're obviously related but many confuse these two aspects.