New vid of Markski's Car
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From: Ozark Moutains, Arkansas
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Originally Posted by cjv
Divexxtreme,
Something is off. The GT3 software will not operate 996tt cams. One has five pointers the other has three. I am not aware and do not believe that modified vario cams exist or can be made. Now it is possible to use the stock 996tt intake and GT3 exhaust cams. The GT3 exhaust cam will fit in the 996tt cam housings. This is what many turners claim to be modified 996tt cams.
Don't try to take 996tt hydralic lifters much above 7600. It is possible but you are looking for trouble. Porting and poloshing is nice, but if you want the real big power you need to enlarge the valves like Alex did. Otherwise you will get hp without the corresponding torque. You really need the torque to make the car accelerate fast.
Something is off. The GT3 software will not operate 996tt cams. One has five pointers the other has three. I am not aware and do not believe that modified vario cams exist or can be made. Now it is possible to use the stock 996tt intake and GT3 exhaust cams. The GT3 exhaust cam will fit in the 996tt cam housings. This is what many turners claim to be modified 996tt cams.
Don't try to take 996tt hydralic lifters much above 7600. It is possible but you are looking for trouble. Porting and poloshing is nice, but if you want the real big power you need to enlarge the valves like Alex did. Otherwise you will get hp without the corresponding torque. You really need the torque to make the car accelerate fast.
The 04 Cup Gt3 cam and the 996tt cam have the same 4 pointers on the cam triggers. However, they are a mirror image of each other, thus the sequence is off. The 996tt will not start with the Gt3 trigger as it's looking for a short trigger after the long. The gt3 has the long gap after the short trigger. So, even if we set all the trigger flank angles up correct, it just will not start as the "quickstart" sequence is wrong and it never detects tdc to get moving.
Now, We are going to regrind the variocams. Sure, maybe it hasn't been done before, but that's where the "Proto" in Protomotive came from in the first place... from Prototype Automotive ;p
And as far as hydraulic lifters above 7600 rpm's. Talk to Vralexander about how well they work at 7800
He's been running them that way for nearly 20,000 miles now. Of course that's not with stock valve springs...And without enlarging the valves, but only doing cam and port/polish, what we'll be lacking IS the top rpm power, but without the high rpm airflow we'll just have to generate nice power under the curve at lower rpm's. Even your (cjv's) stock engine with bolt-on's was generating very nice numbers already in the low to mid 7k rpm's. With stock heads, we usually see the same power as torque like Divexxtreme's 605/604whp setup, where Markski's/Vralexanders are making another 100hp than any given torque number. ie 685.16rwhp/584.59rwtq at 1.1 bar on Markski's. And that seems to be more pronounced as the boost goes up, making 871.63rwhp/743rwtq at the 1.5bar range. Vralexanders showed the same on the engine dyno at 863hp/766tq at 1.3 bar crank numbers. These two engines having the headwork, thus producing more rpm's, and thus more power for any given torque. Just like those little v8 F1 engine's making 800hp and only 250ftlbs of torque. They're just using a ton of rpm's...
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Originally Posted by TRK
Chad,
The 04 Cup Gt3 cam and the 996tt cam have the same 4 pointers on the cam triggers. However, they are a mirror image of each other, thus the sequence is off. The 996tt will not start with the Gt3 trigger as it's looking for a short trigger after the long. The gt3 has the long gap after the short trigger. So, even if we set all the trigger flank angles up correct, it just will not start as the "quickstart" sequence is wrong and it never detects tdc to get moving.
Now, We are going to regrind the variocams. Sure, maybe it hasn't been done before, but that's where the "Proto" in Protomotive came from in the first place... from Prototype Automotive ;p
And as far as hydraulic lifters above 7600 rpm's. Talk to Vralexander about how well they work at 7800 He's been running them that way for nearly 20,000 miles now. Of course that's not with stock valve springs...
And without enlarging the valves, but only doing cam and port/polish, what we'll be lacking IS the top rpm power, but without the high rpm airflow we'll just have to generate nice power under the curve at lower rpm's. Even your (cjv's) stock engine with bolt-on's was generating very nice numbers already in the low to mid 7k rpm's. With stock heads, we usually see the same power as torque like Divexxtreme's 605/604whp setup, where Markski's/Vralexanders are making another 100hp than any given torque number. ie 685.16rwhp/584.59rwtq at 1.1 bar on Markski's. And that seems to be more pronounced as the boost goes up, making 871.63rwhp/743rwtq at the 1.5bar range. Vralexanders showed the same on the engine dyno at 863hp/766tq at 1.3 bar crank numbers. These two engines having the headwork, thus producing more rpm's, and thus more power for any given torque. Just like those little v8 F1 engine's making 800hp and only 250ftlbs of torque. They're just using a ton of rpm's...
The 04 Cup Gt3 cam and the 996tt cam have the same 4 pointers on the cam triggers. However, they are a mirror image of each other, thus the sequence is off. The 996tt will not start with the Gt3 trigger as it's looking for a short trigger after the long. The gt3 has the long gap after the short trigger. So, even if we set all the trigger flank angles up correct, it just will not start as the "quickstart" sequence is wrong and it never detects tdc to get moving.
Now, We are going to regrind the variocams. Sure, maybe it hasn't been done before, but that's where the "Proto" in Protomotive came from in the first place... from Prototype Automotive ;p
And as far as hydraulic lifters above 7600 rpm's. Talk to Vralexander about how well they work at 7800
He's been running them that way for nearly 20,000 miles now. Of course that's not with stock valve springs...And without enlarging the valves, but only doing cam and port/polish, what we'll be lacking IS the top rpm power, but without the high rpm airflow we'll just have to generate nice power under the curve at lower rpm's. Even your (cjv's) stock engine with bolt-on's was generating very nice numbers already in the low to mid 7k rpm's. With stock heads, we usually see the same power as torque like Divexxtreme's 605/604whp setup, where Markski's/Vralexanders are making another 100hp than any given torque number. ie 685.16rwhp/584.59rwtq at 1.1 bar on Markski's. And that seems to be more pronounced as the boost goes up, making 871.63rwhp/743rwtq at the 1.5bar range. Vralexanders showed the same on the engine dyno at 863hp/766tq at 1.3 bar crank numbers. These two engines having the headwork, thus producing more rpm's, and thus more power for any given torque. Just like those little v8 F1 engine's making 800hp and only 250ftlbs of torque. They're just using a ton of rpm's...
That is definitely a new one for me. Todd, to modify the lift on a stock vario cam I am assuming you are adding metal (welding and regrinding)? If so, are there any concerns regarding the tappets flattening out the cam lobes? If not, what are you doing? You can't cut the center ring on these cams ............ can you?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 71
From: Ozark Moutains, Arkansas
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Flattening of the tappets is mostly an oiling issue with the hardwelded cams, so we've always been very specific on the oil run in our clients cars.
As for the center ring, I'm assuming you're referring to the smaller lobe that runs around 3-4mm lift and only 114deg duration. We're leaving that one alone, and will probably not be using it at all as the Gt3 software doesn't use the variable lift option. So, if the Gt3 variable cam software works out, we won't need it and will have the cams in full lift mode all the time. If it doesn't work out, we'll have it available for the 996tt software that does utilize the variable lift, but not fully utilizing the variable cam timing portion.
Yes, technology has definitely marched on In a good way I believe.
As for the center ring, I'm assuming you're referring to the smaller lobe that runs around 3-4mm lift and only 114deg duration. We're leaving that one alone, and will probably not be using it at all as the Gt3 software doesn't use the variable lift option. So, if the Gt3 variable cam software works out, we won't need it and will have the cams in full lift mode all the time. If it doesn't work out, we'll have it available for the 996tt software that does utilize the variable lift, but not fully utilizing the variable cam timing portion.
Yes, technology has definitely marched on
In a good way I believe.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally Posted by TRK
Flattening of the tappets is mostly an oiling issue with the hardwelded cams, so we've always been very specific on the oil run in our clients cars.
As for the center ring, I'm assuming you're referring to the smaller lobe that runs around 3-4mm lift and only 114deg duration. We're leaving that one alone, and will probably not be using it at all as the Gt3 software doesn't use the variable lift option. So, if the Gt3 variable cam software works out, we won't need it and will have the cams in full lift mode all the time. If it doesn't work out, we'll have it available for the 996tt software that does utilize the variable lift, but not fully utilizing the variable cam timing portion.
Yes, technology has definitely marched on In a good way I believe.
As for the center ring, I'm assuming you're referring to the smaller lobe that runs around 3-4mm lift and only 114deg duration. We're leaving that one alone, and will probably not be using it at all as the Gt3 software doesn't use the variable lift option. So, if the Gt3 variable cam software works out, we won't need it and will have the cams in full lift mode all the time. If it doesn't work out, we'll have it available for the 996tt software that does utilize the variable lift, but not fully utilizing the variable cam timing portion.
Yes, technology has definitely marched on
In a good way I believe. I find it hard to believe that eleven months ago we were struck regarding the cam issue. Then you developed a way to use use the GT3 street cams, now the stock cams. When Divexxtreme first said what he was trying to have done I was trying to think of a polite way to tell him he was off his rocker. 
I can tell you that last November I spoke with the cam maker who is doing what you are talking about and it was not really possible then. You are really raising the word "Proto" to a new paradyne. As a second thought, you have to be makng VR a very happy person. All he really needs to do now is change his cams and not his heads and cam holders.
In addition, this sounds like the ticket for those who would like to get the most out of the GT30R turbo's without going through the expense of GT3 heads, cams and cam housings which really beg for GT35R's as a minimum.
Last edited by cjv; Dec 30, 2006 at 05:08 PM.
Originally Posted by WOODTSTER
Wow (re: post 49 thru 52)
Cool
and Wow
I no longer think of myself as a motorhead!
Really neat stuff!
Marty K.
Cool
and Wow
I no longer think of myself as a motorhead!
Really neat stuff!
Marty K.
I learned so much....
markski
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally Posted by TRK
Chad,
The 04 Cup Gt3 cam and the 996tt cam have the same 4 pointers on the cam triggers. However, they are a mirror image of each other, thus the sequence is off. The 996tt will not start with the Gt3 trigger as it's looking for a short trigger after the long. The gt3 has the long gap after the short trigger. So, even if we set all the trigger flank angles up correct, it just will not start as the "quickstart" sequence is wrong and it never detects tdc to get moving.
Now, We are going to regrind the variocams. Sure, maybe it hasn't been done before, but that's where the "Proto" in Protomotive came from in the first place... from Prototype Automotive ;p
And as far as hydraulic lifters above 7600 rpm's. Talk to Vralexander about how well they work at 7800 He's been running them that way for nearly 20,000 miles now. Of course that's not with stock valve springs...
And without enlarging the valves, but only doing cam and port/polish, what we'll be lacking IS the top rpm power, but without the high rpm airflow we'll just have to generate nice power under the curve at lower rpm's. Even your (cjv's) stock engine with bolt-on's was generating very nice numbers already in the low to mid 7k rpm's. With stock heads, we usually see the same power as torque like Divexxtreme's 605/604whp setup, where Markski's/Vralexanders are making another 100hp than any given torque number. ie 685.16rwhp/584.59rwtq at 1.1 bar on Markski's. And that seems to be more pronounced as the boost goes up, making 871.63rwhp/743rwtq at the 1.5bar range. Vralexanders showed the same on the engine dyno at 863hp/766tq at 1.3 bar crank numbers. These two engines having the headwork, thus producing more rpm's, and thus more power for any given torque. Just like those little v8 F1 engine's making 800hp and only 250ftlbs of torque. They're just using a ton of rpm's...
The 04 Cup Gt3 cam and the 996tt cam have the same 4 pointers on the cam triggers. However, they are a mirror image of each other, thus the sequence is off. The 996tt will not start with the Gt3 trigger as it's looking for a short trigger after the long. The gt3 has the long gap after the short trigger. So, even if we set all the trigger flank angles up correct, it just will not start as the "quickstart" sequence is wrong and it never detects tdc to get moving.
Now, We are going to regrind the variocams. Sure, maybe it hasn't been done before, but that's where the "Proto" in Protomotive came from in the first place... from Prototype Automotive ;p
And as far as hydraulic lifters above 7600 rpm's. Talk to Vralexander about how well they work at 7800
He's been running them that way for nearly 20,000 miles now. Of course that's not with stock valve springs...And without enlarging the valves, but only doing cam and port/polish, what we'll be lacking IS the top rpm power, but without the high rpm airflow we'll just have to generate nice power under the curve at lower rpm's. Even your (cjv's) stock engine with bolt-on's was generating very nice numbers already in the low to mid 7k rpm's. With stock heads, we usually see the same power as torque like Divexxtreme's 605/604whp setup, where Markski's/Vralexanders are making another 100hp than any given torque number. ie 685.16rwhp/584.59rwtq at 1.1 bar on Markski's. And that seems to be more pronounced as the boost goes up, making 871.63rwhp/743rwtq at the 1.5bar range. Vralexanders showed the same on the engine dyno at 863hp/766tq at 1.3 bar crank numbers. These two engines having the headwork, thus producing more rpm's, and thus more power for any given torque. Just like those little v8 F1 engine's making 800hp and only 250ftlbs of torque. They're just using a ton of rpm's...
Much to our surprise, that old motor developed max hp @ 7500 rpm's.
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