Thanks for the warm reception guys. We really appreciate it. I hope you like what we're cooking up for the 996tt. Both in terms of performance and price. In a few ways, it will be different from the current market offerings. And, of course, no Porsche tax More info to come later this week.

Cheers,
shiv
www.vishnutuning.com

 

Shiv, Nice writeup in Autoweek a few weeks back on the EVO and 335. Good luck with the 996TT.

 

This is a very interesting post. You don't hear too much about custom tuning on 996's. I'm really interested in having this done at some point on my car.

I have a question and a comment for you. The computer you're using to adjust the ECU.... How does this work? Is there a piggy back that plugs into the ECU and you're changing the parameters there, or are you actually adjusting the porsche motronic ecu parameters? I wasn't aware you could do this without cracking the 996 motronic code. Does your procede computer plug directly into the obd port?

My comment...
Your post is exactly why I have been preaching about the dynapack dynos (www.dynapack.com). While the mustang dyno is far superior to a dynajet, the mustang still has do deal with many variables such as tire pressure, strap tension, etc which which can really move numbers around in different directions.

Aside from the fact that the dynapack eliminates all of the typical variables most dynos deal with by hooking directly to the hubs, it offers the added advatange of being able to hold a specific rpm regardless of throttle position. not a useful feature for just testing numbers, however, being the tuner that you are, you could actually lock in any rpm and tune that point specifically on the dyno with zero rpm fluctuation. This would have been perfect for your 4800-5100 problem.

Why don't you find a shop with one of these and try it next time and let me know what you think? . I'm completely sold on this system. It's very very expensive comparitivley but the advantages are obvious. It's only about 20 percent more expensive for dyno time due to the extra hook up and disconnection time. I love the fact that there are no straps and no chance of it flying off either.

 

Is the Dynapack the dyno that bolts to the axles like Protomotive and
Ultimate Motorwerks have ??

MK

 

Re: Dynapack dyno
I've used them before for both 2wd and awd applications. I dont particularly like them due to the removal of the only point of deflection (tires). Quite often, this results in a bad mechanical resonance at a specific wheelspeed. They don't do anything that other load bearing dynos cant do (like hold specific wheel speeds, vary ramp-up speed, etc,.). But they are a pain to set-up. If I had limited shop space and one car that I had to tune during the summer, it would be a viable choice since i could just leave it installed on the dyno and tune it at my leisure. But for a tuner that actually tunes, they are a royal PITA. That's just my experience with them so take it for what its worth. My favorite tuning dyno is an AWD Dyno Dynamics dyno (which is what we have of course ). I particularly like the low weight rollers which contributes to its high resolution. Live, during-the-run plotting is also a huge benefit since you can see the power/torque/afr/boost curves during the run, not just after.

Re: PROcede
By definition, it is a piggy-back ECU that wires into your factory ECU harness. Installation time in the BMW 335 takes me about 15 minutes (first timers take around 30-45 min). You can download the FAQ, free user software, the BMW installation video at: http://www.vishnutuning.com/BMW_support.htm

Installation on the Porsche will be a bit easier since it only takes a few seconds to get access to the ECU as it is not hidden under layers of plastic covers. The 996tt uses the same kind of ecu pins as the BMW so pin extraction is a breeze. All said and done, the Porche PROcede should take 3-8 minutes to install with nothing more than a ball point pen or small pointy object.

What separates the PROcede from traditional piggy-backs is that it can, if required, generate its own signals as a function of any number of input variables. Much like a stand-alone computer in many respects. It can also drive injectors and ignition coils directly if the application were to demand such an approach. All these features give us ultimate flexibility when it comes to application-specific implementation. In the case of the 996tt, some of the development work was already done with the BMW 335. The biggest difference being getting it to interface with a reluctor-type dual inverted signal crank angle sensor used in the 2001 996tt. By the looks of it, they moved to a more traditional single signal CAS
in 2002 and up. I hope to get my hands on a 2002-and-up car soon. Then a 997tt after that.

As for pricing, expect it to be under $2000 regardless of application (x50, non x50, 996tt, 997tt, etc,.) Maps updates will be free. No need to shell out more cash when you need a map for upgraded turbos, a new exhaust, intake, etc,. It's all going to be free. As will the user software (for logging/uploading/tuning/etc,.) Basically, once you have a PROcede, you can put it into ANY Porsche you have or get in the future. All that you need is a laptop to upload the appropriate map (which will be downloadable from our website).

The other benefit of the PROcede, as I see it, is that it is fully removable and leaves no traces for the dealership to see. No update to the flash counter (since no flash is involved). No logged out-of-spec data (since we are effectively tuning the sensors, not the ECU). It's no suprised that its so popular with people who lease their cars. 'Naughty naughty' as Borat would say.

Custom tuning will also be available. Not only from our northern California facilites but also during our out-of-state tuning trips that we do at least 6 times a year (Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Portland, SoCal, NJ, DC, Denver, etc,.) I never quite understood why custom tuning is so hard to get in the Porsche market. A few % gain in a 500+hp is huge. Not to mention the peace of mind knowing that your $100K+ is making the power it should and doing it safely. Basically, we're going to stick by guns and offer the same services to Porsche Turbos as we offer for the other cars that we support. Hopefully, you guys will like it.

Cheers
shiv

 

Maybe it varies from application to application, but I had mine on there all morning, holding at different rpms, and we never saw any resonance. i have my own onboard datalogger, but the dynapack offered the option of live data reading as well as the ability to preprogram cutoffs so that if it reaches a certain AF ratio, the dyno automatically shut down.

I know they're are more work to set up, but don't you think it's worth it to reduce the tire pressure, strap tension, and other variables? You get the same readings over and over and from dyno to dyno with it hooking directly up to the hub. The guys that did my car had it up and running in around 25 mins. A little longer than the dynajet operators would have taken, but at least there were no straps. By your own experiences, the mustang obviously is affected these variables as well. What good are they if they vary 25 hp from machine to machine?

The procede piggy sounds like an interesting option. Does it totally replace the Porsche ECU or is it wired inline with it?

However, at that expense, why not just get rid of the porsche ecu and replace it with a motec? It has amazing capability and their lower models are in the same price point. The installation is more involved as I don't think anyone has created a harness to plug it directly in yet, so now it requires splicing.

 

I don't think the Dynapacks are immunit to calibration variance between shops. The only real difference is the principle of operation. At the end of the day, tuning is about comparing results on the same car, same day under similar conditions. I don't see how Dynapacks offer any advantage over anything else. Adding wheels, air pressure and tire deflection into the equation doesn't amount to much of anything as long as they are held constant. I usually see less than a 1% difference in run-to-run variance between back to back runs. But that's another subject altogether. Different dynos are going to have different proponents.

Inline with it. You can see exactly how it is installed in the BMW video.

Last I checked (and it's been a while since we offered standalones), a MoTec ecu was considerably more expensive to purchase, fit and tune than a PROcede. Perhaps 3-4 times as expensive. And any realworld performance advantages would be questionable. It's really hard to beat modern factory ECUs when it comes to performance and adaptability. Even the best stand alones look awfully crude in comparison, IMHO.

Regard,
shiv

 

I agree stand alone ECU are for specific applications. I have owned a couple Remember the "LINK". Just too many variables to duplicate for a daily driver. Again maybe things have gotten better but the factory does a great job so why fool with it. Unless it's for a race car!

 

i was told that when using a Motec on a P car you loose all the luxuries of power this and power that.... no way to control them with a Motec.

 

It would also take some work to control the Variocam and Varioram (although it is doable). Ultimately, the days of stand alones is coming to an end for anything but a dedicated race car. And even in those applications, more and more are opting for an OE ecu approach.

-shiv

 

Yes.

www.dynapackusa.com

 

the motec pricing has come down quite a bit. you can get their lower unit for $2K and the more advanced stuff for $10K. a tuning shop near me has been using them on porsches for some time now. the fit is the big problem as you have to splice wires. that being said, your option seems like a simpler less expensive (overall) efficient way of doing it. i'd be interested when it becomes available for the 996 cars.

the dynapacks are calibrated to riddiculous standards before they leave the factory, combined with the way these units operate make the odds of seeing variances between shops slim. especially when you factor in that you don't have to worry about the condition of the roller surface, tire pressure, and strap tension. if you don't see how dynapacks don't offer an advantage over anything else, then you should read this section:
http://www.dynapackusa.com/tech.htm

having used several other dynos previously and then using a dynapack, i'm totally sold on the concept.

just looking at their testimonials and customer links says it all.

i'd be willing to guess most shops don't use them because they're really really expensive and due to the setup time you'll probably reduce dyno time revenue.

 

Shiv,
I'll throw out a little suggestion...

Offer a meth/water injection kit for these cars. The number of w/i kits running on the TTs are very few, as misinformation is great and experience with them is low. They are almost seen as taboo, and I don't fully understand why - but my thoughts are along the lines of improper tuning/limited experience leading to expensive lessons. With the amount of boost/power some of the kits are offering, without upgraded intercoolers...I shudder.

You would be the ONLY shop to offer a Porsche-specific application, with an ability to tune for it.


I'll say it again because it's really that needed....

METH/WATER INJECTION.

thank you,
TomK

 

yes, please.... maybe competition will spur Evo to seriously pursue such an idea again.

- chuck

 

WOW !!! Vishnu!!! Amazing !!!!!!

Divi