Divexxtreme: Do you have water injection?
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Norfolk, VA
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water injection
Good question and it's not popular in the Pcar world...it's seeems to be "looked down upon" as not "worthy" for the Porsche motors. A few reasons why that could be:
-few tuners who can actually "tune" instead of "flash", not allowing those who want to use WI to properly adjust fuel/timing. Easier (and more profitable) for them to sell you bigger turbos and another ridiculously priced "off-the-shelf" flash.
-most of those few tuners who can actually "tune" not having enough experience with WI and shunning it's use as "a cheap method of adding octane , so we'll just use racegas instead". "And if you want more power, why don't you just buy bigger turbos".
-the few people who've tried to use it and the above tuners not doing a good job or using it incorrectly or not using the proper failsafes and it leads to one or two veryvocal posters to "bash" meth/water injection as the reason why their motors blew...thus giving meth/water injection a bad name and the resultant "snobby" remarks shunning the use of meth/water injection. "And you could just buy these special upgrade turbos instead...I need to pay off my mortgage"
There are a few posts regarding W/I and you'll see where I take my referenced reasons from:
VERY WORTH THE READ - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...highlight=meth
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...highlight=meth
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...highlight=meth
It is a real shame, as WI is a phenomenal way to keep one's car running BETTER, not just more power. The spray actually cleans the intake path, valves, combustion chamber, pistons....virtually eliminating coking and the resultant detonation-causing-hotspots.
My DD/trackcar just was tuned for a Snow kit, the attached graph shows an off-the-shelf Stage 2 tune vs a dyno/street tune with methanol/water (66%meth/34%water)...
Imagine running racegas spool/power/torque with 93 octane fillups on a 996TT....
Be good,
TomK
-few tuners who can actually "tune" instead of "flash", not allowing those who want to use WI to properly adjust fuel/timing. Easier (and more profitable) for them to sell you bigger turbos and another ridiculously priced "off-the-shelf" flash.
-most of those few tuners who can actually "tune" not having enough experience with WI and shunning it's use as "a cheap method of adding octane , so we'll just use racegas instead". "And if you want more power, why don't you just buy bigger turbos".
-the few people who've tried to use it and the above tuners not doing a good job or using it incorrectly or not using the proper failsafes and it leads to one or two veryvocal posters to "bash" meth/water injection as the reason why their motors blew...thus giving meth/water injection a bad name and the resultant "snobby" remarks shunning the use of meth/water injection. "And you could just buy these special upgrade turbos instead...I need to pay off my mortgage"
There are a few posts regarding W/I and you'll see where I take my referenced reasons from:
VERY WORTH THE READ - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...highlight=meth
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...highlight=meth
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...highlight=meth
It is a real shame, as WI is a phenomenal way to keep one's car running BETTER, not just more power. The spray actually cleans the intake path, valves, combustion chamber, pistons....virtually eliminating coking and the resultant detonation-causing-hotspots.
My DD/trackcar just was tuned for a Snow kit, the attached graph shows an off-the-shelf Stage 2 tune vs a dyno/street tune with methanol/water (66%meth/34%water)...
Imagine running racegas spool/power/torque with 93 octane fillups on a 996TT....
Be good,
TomK
You seem to be up on everything I've been reading regarding WI. I just had my S4 dyno tuned but I'm afraid the 80k mile engine has carbon buildup that limited tuning due to knock. I have a $2200 fmic and it helps quite a bit with air temps so I was disappointed with the final hp.The reason I post on here is I love porsche turbos but can't afford one on engineering pay.
I'm not sure everyone with 600+hp porsches fully appreciates the benefits of a good water injection kit. The heat capacity of water is a known fact and WI doesn't majically violate any laws of thermodynamics. I agree, the kit needs to be VERY reliable and needs to tell you when a nozzle clogs up, or if you run out of water. If you run 93 octane on a race file.. it's critical.The snow performace kit works because it can inject the proper amount of water at WOT. The difference between that kit and the $900 aquamist system is the precise control and the flow meter that allows you to read the flow rate on the included dash gauge. The snow performance kit relies on water pressure and nozzle size for the amount of water injected. The aquamist system has high speed stainless valving that meters water and can be tapped into the fuel injection so the water volume changes with injector duty cycle all the way up the rpm's.
The older aquamist pumps (or their race pump) couldn't provide enough water volume for high hp. That's why they finally went with the shurflo pump but had extra internal bypasses installed. Methanol doesn't have the heat capacity of water, so the volume injected has to be up to 2X the volume of water injected for the same cooling effect. The shurflo pumps can support it with no problem.
I'm stuck at around 400whp with my S4. I plan to run my 100 octane ecu on 93 octane with water injection installed. I'd love to see the HFS-5 installed on a 700-800hp 996tt.
No, I don't work for aquamist but the engineer, Richard, really knows his stuff. How will you know if a spray nozzle is clogged with the snow performance kit?
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OK, now we're talking. You seem to be up on everything I've been reading regarding WI. I just had my S4 dyno tuned but I'm afraid the 80k mile engine has carbon buildup that limited tuning due to knock. I have a $2200 fmic and it helps quite a bit with air temps so I was disappointed with the final hp.
The reason I post on here is I love porsche turbos but can't afford one on engineering pay. I'm not sure everyone with 600+hp porsches fully appreciates the benefits of a good water injection kit. The heat capacity of water is a known fact and WI doesn't majically violate any laws of thermodynamics. I agree, the kit needs to be VERY reliable and needs to tell you when a nozzle clogs up, or if you run out of water. If you run 93 octane on a race file.. it's critical.
The snow performace kit works because it can inject the proper amount of water at WOT. The difference between that kit and the $900 aquamist system is the precise control and the flow meter that allows you to read the flow rate on the included dash gauge. The snow performance kit relies on water pressure and nozzle size for the amount of water injected. The aquamist system has high speed stainless valving that meters water and can be tapped into the fuel injection so the water volume changes with injector duty cycle all the way up the rpm's.
The older aquamist pumps (or their race pump) couldn't provide enough water volume for high hp. That's why they finally went with the shurflo pump but had extra internal bypasses installed. Methanol doesn't have the heat capacity of water, so the volume injected has to be up to 2X the volume of water injected for the same cooling effect. The shurflo pumps can support it with no problem.
I'm stuck at around 400whp with my S4. I plan to run my 100 octane ecu on 93 octane with water injection installed. I'd love to see the HFS-5 installed on a 700-800hp 996tt. No, I don't work for aquamist but the engineer, Richard, really knows his stuff. How will you know if a spray nozzle is clogged with the snow performance kit?
You seem to be up on everything I've been reading regarding WI. I just had my S4 dyno tuned but I'm afraid the 80k mile engine has carbon buildup that limited tuning due to knock. I have a $2200 fmic and it helps quite a bit with air temps so I was disappointed with the final hp.The reason I post on here is I love porsche turbos but can't afford one on engineering pay.
I'm not sure everyone with 600+hp porsches fully appreciates the benefits of a good water injection kit. The heat capacity of water is a known fact and WI doesn't majically violate any laws of thermodynamics. I agree, the kit needs to be VERY reliable and needs to tell you when a nozzle clogs up, or if you run out of water. If you run 93 octane on a race file.. it's critical.The snow performace kit works because it can inject the proper amount of water at WOT. The difference between that kit and the $900 aquamist system is the precise control and the flow meter that allows you to read the flow rate on the included dash gauge. The snow performance kit relies on water pressure and nozzle size for the amount of water injected. The aquamist system has high speed stainless valving that meters water and can be tapped into the fuel injection so the water volume changes with injector duty cycle all the way up the rpm's.
The older aquamist pumps (or their race pump) couldn't provide enough water volume for high hp. That's why they finally went with the shurflo pump but had extra internal bypasses installed. Methanol doesn't have the heat capacity of water, so the volume injected has to be up to 2X the volume of water injected for the same cooling effect. The shurflo pumps can support it with no problem.
I'm stuck at around 400whp with my S4. I plan to run my 100 octane ecu on 93 octane with water injection installed. I'd love to see the HFS-5 installed on a 700-800hp 996tt.
No, I don't work for aquamist but the engineer, Richard, really knows his stuff. How will you know if a spray nozzle is clogged with the snow performance kit?
.
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My commentsbelow in red...
OK, now we're talking. You seem to be up on everything I've been reading regarding WI. I just had my S4 dyno tuned but I'm afraid the 80k mile engine has carbon buildup that limited tuning due to knock. I have a $2200 fmic and it helps quite a bit with air temps so I was disappointed with the final hp.
The reason I post on here is I love porsche turbos but can't afford one on engineering pay. I'm not sure everyone with 600+hp porsches fully appreciates the benefits of a good water injection kit. The heat capacity of water is a known fact and WI doesn't majically violate any laws of thermodynamics. I agree, the kit needs to be VERY reliable and needs to tell you when a nozzle clogs up, or if you run out of water. If you run 93 octane on a race file.. it's critical.
You cannot use a race file with 93oct and meth/water...it's not tuned together, it doesn't work that way.
The snow performace kit works because it can inject the proper amount of water at WOT.
Not true...the Snow kit works either from boost referenced input or MAF voltage. My kit is triggered by my MAF voltage (0-5V) at around 3.5V and PROGRESSIVELY increases flow to max MAF readings - there are plenty of times that my kit sprays when I'm at partialthrottle...based on MAF voltage!!!!. The difference between that kit and the $900 aquamist system is the precise control and the flow meter that allows you to read the flow rate on the included dash gauge.
Without getting into which kit is better...and the Aquamist kit is better...just know that certain things are nice to have and others are a necessity.
The snow performance kit relies on water pressure and nozzle size for the amount of water injected.
The Aquamist kit also uses nozzle size to gauge the amount of flow at 100% duty cycle. The aquamist system has high speed stainless valving that meters water and can be tapped into the fuel injection so the water volume changes with injector duty cycle all the way up the rpm's.
Yes it does...fuel and air, either are good waysto measure how much liquid needs to be sprayed. They both work.
The older aquamist pumps (or their race pump) couldn't provide enough water volume for high hp. That's why they finally went with the shurflo pump but had extra internal bypasses installed. Methanol doesn't have the heat capacity of water, so the volume injected has to be up to 2X the volume of water injected for the same cooling effect. The shurflo pumps can support it with no problem.
I'm stuck at around 400whp with my S4. I plan to run my 100 octane ecu on 93 octane with water injection installed.
DO NOT DO THIS AS THE TIMING TABLES ARE DIFFERENT FOR METH AND FOR RACE GAS.
I'd love to see the HFS-5 installed on a 700-800hp 996tt. No, I don't work for aquamist but the engineer, Richard, really knows his stuff. How will you know if a spray nozzle is clogged with the snow performance kit?
Clogged nozzles are not...how doI say this right...a normal occurance with meth injection. I use VP Methanol, mix it 2 to 1 with distilled water in a 5 gallon tank and then pour it in my tanks in the car...what is going to clog my nozzle??? I also have a screen/filter before my nozzle...like a fuel-line filter. I never understood Aquamist's propoganda about clogged nozzles. This is my second meth/water kit and I've never had a problem before.
How does one know if their fuel injectors are clogged????
I do have an LED that lights when my pump is spraying, though. That let's me know the pump is working. Snow is re-releasing it's "Safe Injection" unit...a flow meter with a gauge that let's you know if flow has slowed or increased (due to a leak/hole). Perhaps I'll do this, chances are I won't, as the "clogged-nozzle" is really an engineered paranoia-based marketing tool.
But they do make really nice kits and the one you bought is a great one.
Best of luck with the S4 (always loved those cars) and please make sure you get a custom tune.
You seem to be up on everything I've been reading regarding WI. I just had my S4 dyno tuned but I'm afraid the 80k mile engine has carbon buildup that limited tuning due to knock. I have a $2200 fmic and it helps quite a bit with air temps so I was disappointed with the final hp.The reason I post on here is I love porsche turbos but can't afford one on engineering pay.
I'm not sure everyone with 600+hp porsches fully appreciates the benefits of a good water injection kit. The heat capacity of water is a known fact and WI doesn't majically violate any laws of thermodynamics. I agree, the kit needs to be VERY reliable and needs to tell you when a nozzle clogs up, or if you run out of water. If you run 93 octane on a race file.. it's critical.You cannot use a race file with 93oct and meth/water...it's not tuned together, it doesn't work that way.
The snow performace kit works because it can inject the proper amount of water at WOT.
Not true...the Snow kit works either from boost referenced input or MAF voltage. My kit is triggered by my MAF voltage (0-5V) at around 3.5V and PROGRESSIVELY increases flow to max MAF readings - there are plenty of times that my kit sprays when I'm at partialthrottle...based on MAF voltage!!!!. The difference between that kit and the $900 aquamist system is the precise control and the flow meter that allows you to read the flow rate on the included dash gauge.
Without getting into which kit is better...and the Aquamist kit is better...just know that certain things are nice to have and others are a necessity.
The snow performance kit relies on water pressure and nozzle size for the amount of water injected.
The Aquamist kit also uses nozzle size to gauge the amount of flow at 100% duty cycle. The aquamist system has high speed stainless valving that meters water and can be tapped into the fuel injection so the water volume changes with injector duty cycle all the way up the rpm's.
Yes it does...fuel and air, either are good waysto measure how much liquid needs to be sprayed. They both work.
The older aquamist pumps (or their race pump) couldn't provide enough water volume for high hp. That's why they finally went with the shurflo pump but had extra internal bypasses installed. Methanol doesn't have the heat capacity of water, so the volume injected has to be up to 2X the volume of water injected for the same cooling effect. The shurflo pumps can support it with no problem.
I'm stuck at around 400whp with my S4. I plan to run my 100 octane ecu on 93 octane with water injection installed.
DO NOT DO THIS AS THE TIMING TABLES ARE DIFFERENT FOR METH AND FOR RACE GAS.
I'd love to see the HFS-5 installed on a 700-800hp 996tt.
No, I don't work for aquamist but the engineer, Richard, really knows his stuff. How will you know if a spray nozzle is clogged with the snow performance kit?Clogged nozzles are not...how doI say this right...a normal occurance with meth injection. I use VP Methanol, mix it 2 to 1 with distilled water in a 5 gallon tank and then pour it in my tanks in the car...what is going to clog my nozzle??? I also have a screen/filter before my nozzle...like a fuel-line filter. I never understood Aquamist's propoganda about clogged nozzles. This is my second meth/water kit and I've never had a problem before.
How does one know if their fuel injectors are clogged????
I do have an LED that lights when my pump is spraying, though. That let's me know the pump is working. Snow is re-releasing it's "Safe Injection" unit...a flow meter with a gauge that let's you know if flow has slowed or increased (due to a leak/hole). Perhaps I'll do this, chances are I won't, as the "clogged-nozzle" is really an engineered paranoia-based marketing tool.
But they do make really nice kits and the one you bought is a great one.
Best of luck with the S4 (always loved those cars) and please make sure you get a custom tune.
Last edited by ace996; Sep 14, 2007 at 04:30 PM.
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Wi
I agree that some features are nice to have but not absolutely required. I didn't intend to talk too bad about the snow kit. It gets the job done so I was only trying to note the differences, since I did pay so much more for the aquamist system.
I guess I should've mentioned that I'll run the 100 octane software on 93 but will log knock activity and timing with the laptop. If the ecu pulls a ton of timing then, of course, it wouldn't be safe to run. My 100 octane file only runs 1 more psi of boost at redline and 5-10 more degrees of timing than the 93 file.
I will drive up to EPL for custom WI tuning but I won't jump the gun again. It's 400 miles up there so I'll make sure the WI system is up and running for awhile, and any other engine issues are taken care of before driving up there again. Now that I have their basic fueling kit.. additional dyno tunes are only $500.
I guess I should've mentioned that I'll run the 100 octane software on 93 but will log knock activity and timing with the laptop. If the ecu pulls a ton of timing then, of course, it wouldn't be safe to run. My 100 octane file only runs 1 more psi of boost at redline and 5-10 more degrees of timing than the 93 file.
I will drive up to EPL for custom WI tuning but I won't jump the gun again. It's 400 miles up there so I'll make sure the WI system is up and running for awhile, and any other engine issues are taken care of before driving up there again. Now that I have their basic fueling kit.. additional dyno tunes are only $500.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 224
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I agree that some features are nice to have but not absolutely required. I didn't intend to talk too bad about the snow kit. It gets the job done so I was only trying to note the differences, since I did pay so much more for the aquamist system.
I guess I should've mentioned that I'll run the 100 octane software on 93 but will log knock activity and timing with the laptop. If the ecu pulls a ton of timing then, of course, it wouldn't be safe to run. My 100 octane file only runs 1 more psi of boost at redline and 5-10 more degrees of timing than the 93 file.
I will drive up to EPL for custom WI tuning but I won't jump the gun again. It's 400 miles up there so I'll make sure the WI system is up and running for awhile, and any other engine issues are taken care of before driving up there again. Now that I have their basic fueling kit.. additional dyno tunes are only $500.
I guess I should've mentioned that I'll run the 100 octane software on 93 but will log knock activity and timing with the laptop. If the ecu pulls a ton of timing then, of course, it wouldn't be safe to run. My 100 octane file only runs 1 more psi of boost at redline and 5-10 more degrees of timing than the 93 file.
I will drive up to EPL for custom WI tuning but I won't jump the gun again. It's 400 miles up there so I'll make sure the WI system is up and running for awhile, and any other engine issues are taken care of before driving up there again. Now that I have their basic fueling kit.. additional dyno tunes are only $500.
You may want to start with your pump gas ecu and lemmi timing in slowing, untill you are some where near your race ecu...then swap the race ecu in.
Your biggest issue will be rich conditions due to the meth...
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I just received the aquamist HFS-5 kit today
For anyone interested in 20 pics I just took.. Here's the link to the folder. The kit is fairly expensive at $900 but, as you'll see in the pics, the fittings and everything else are VERY high quality. This kit can provide enough flow for any turbo porsche.
http://dave-new.com/S4/water_injection/HFS_5/
http://dave-new.com/S4/water_injection/HFS_5/
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