996 N/A Mods
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 37
From: pomona, ca
Rep Power: 20
Just my humble opinion and general observations when it comes to N/A mods for the M96 based motors...
Simple answer: Bump displacement
Long answer:
With the inception of the M96 ala 2.5 and 3.4 all the way to now 3.8 X51 packages, it looks like the reoccurring theme porsche has placed on this motor to increase power would be to simply bumping up displacement...
You really begin to appreciate this when looking at how the X51 package is pretty much a dead giveaway on how the non-x51 package is going to come out for the next cars.
Example:
3.4 = 300hp, 3.4 X51 = 325
3.4 X51 has the same hp as the 3.6 (325hp)
3.6 X51 = 350hp which is then oddly enough very close to the 3.8 found in the 997 that gets 355hp... Get it now?
3.8 X51 380hp which will then turn into ????
Supposedly the X51 packages come with reworked heads ( probably a nice CNC clean up job ), intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and POSSIBLY a little bit more ignition timing for the tune of a whopping 25hp at the flywheel. All this for nearly 15k. So one of the greatest car company's in the world with MILLIONS of dollars that go into R&D say this is the limit of what they can do with respect to street-a-bility and not touching displacement. I guess this puts it all into perspective, at least for me when I thought about modifying my lowly boxster
HOWEVER, there are GREAT forced induction alternatives
To give you an idea, a motor produced in 1993 that has LESS displacement, LESS compression, LESS technology (as in no variable cam timing, etc, etc), SAME amount of cylinders made 30rwhp on 2 psi of boost from a turbocharger. You can imagine what doing this your motor will produce
Simple answer: Bump displacement
Long answer:
With the inception of the M96 ala 2.5 and 3.4 all the way to now 3.8 X51 packages, it looks like the reoccurring theme porsche has placed on this motor to increase power would be to simply bumping up displacement...
You really begin to appreciate this when looking at how the X51 package is pretty much a dead giveaway on how the non-x51 package is going to come out for the next cars.
Example:
3.4 = 300hp, 3.4 X51 = 325
3.4 X51 has the same hp as the 3.6 (325hp)
3.6 X51 = 350hp which is then oddly enough very close to the 3.8 found in the 997 that gets 355hp... Get it now?
3.8 X51 380hp which will then turn into ????
Supposedly the X51 packages come with reworked heads ( probably a nice CNC clean up job ), intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and POSSIBLY a little bit more ignition timing for the tune of a whopping 25hp at the flywheel. All this for nearly 15k. So one of the greatest car company's in the world with MILLIONS of dollars that go into R&D say this is the limit of what they can do with respect to street-a-bility and not touching displacement. I guess this puts it all into perspective, at least for me when I thought about modifying my lowly boxster
HOWEVER, there are GREAT forced induction alternatives
To give you an idea, a motor produced in 1993 that has LESS displacement, LESS compression, LESS technology (as in no variable cam timing, etc, etc), SAME amount of cylinders made 30rwhp on 2 psi of boost from a turbocharger. You can imagine what doing this your motor will produce
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 139
From: Toronto
Rep Power: 26
I have also gone down the Moding lane in recent past with my Saab Viggen. If you have a Turbo car is worth every penny. As for the 996, I wouldn't discourage moding but don't expect seat off your pants improvements. If you are looking to go fast from 0-60 in a striaght line, that + -0.5 sec its all about driver error, shifting, and road condition and if you are tracking your car, learn and practice to be a better driver going around corners. Save your $$ and don't get too hyped by the stuff you read on the forum.
Watch the video link below and you will see the new 418hp M3 doing a 5.2 sec run from 0-60 by an experience driver. Case & Point.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...AR=231444&CT=V
Watch the video link below and you will see the new 418hp M3 doing a 5.2 sec run from 0-60 by an experience driver. Case & Point.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...AR=231444&CT=V
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 314
From: North Carolina
Rep Power: 36
Rush...I hate to tell ya...but pretty much the consensus around the campfire is the N/A Porsche motors are pretty "maxed out" from the factory. Whatever little mods you do here will give you gains that are pretty much negligible. It is NOT worth it to extensively mod a N/A motor.
They may not be huge gains and they may not be inexpensive in all cases to achieve.
All you need to do is perform a search on 6speed and/or rennlist and you will find plenty of mod believers and detractors (and not a ton of consensus).
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,403
From: South Pasadena, CA
Rep Power: 78
wow..I guess reading comprehension is not a strength around here.
I only stated the "general consensus" from reading around. I never PREACHED anything. The OP asked about modding a N/A. I told him what I have READ...and what was most people's opinion. Even in this specific threads people are agreeing. Plus 25hp with a plenum and exh, chip is pretty much it. I never said that was not possible. I just said that to some spending 1000s of dollars for 25hp was not worth it and people spend their money other more worth while mods like brakes or suspension.
I was only helping...not preaching at all or stating any personal experience. If you RE READ what I posted I state immediately that it was my opinion based on reading this and other forums as I was planning mods on my car. I never lead anyone to believe I did extensive R&D on my car or my statements were based on anything other than reading and researching what others have done and reported back.
sheesh...find someone else to bash.
I only stated the "general consensus" from reading around. I never PREACHED anything. The OP asked about modding a N/A. I told him what I have READ...and what was most people's opinion. Even in this specific threads people are agreeing. Plus 25hp with a plenum and exh, chip is pretty much it. I never said that was not possible. I just said that to some spending 1000s of dollars for 25hp was not worth it and people spend their money other more worth while mods like brakes or suspension.
I was only helping...not preaching at all or stating any personal experience. If you RE READ what I posted I state immediately that it was my opinion based on reading this and other forums as I was planning mods on my car. I never lead anyone to believe I did extensive R&D on my car or my statements were based on anything other than reading and researching what others have done and reported back.
sheesh...find someone else to bash.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 314
From: North Carolina
Rep Power: 36
wow..I guess reading comprehension is not a strength around here.
I only stated the "general consensus" from reading around. I never PREACHED anything. The OP asked about modding a N/A. I told him what I have READ...and what was most people's opinion. Even in this specific threads people are agreeing. Plus 25hp with a plenum and exh, chip is pretty much it. I never said that was not possible. I just said that to some spending 1000s of dollars for 25hp was not worth it and people spend their money other more worth while mods like brakes or suspension.
I was only helping...not preaching at all or stating any personal experience. If you RE READ what I posted I state immediately that it was my opinion based on reading this and other forums as I was planning mods on my car. I never lead anyone to believe I did extensive R&D on my car or my statements were based on anything other than reading and researching what others have done and reported back.
sheesh...find someone else to bash.
I only stated the "general consensus" from reading around. I never PREACHED anything. The OP asked about modding a N/A. I told him what I have READ...and what was most people's opinion. Even in this specific threads people are agreeing. Plus 25hp with a plenum and exh, chip is pretty much it. I never said that was not possible. I just said that to some spending 1000s of dollars for 25hp was not worth it and people spend their money other more worth while mods like brakes or suspension.
I was only helping...not preaching at all or stating any personal experience. If you RE READ what I posted I state immediately that it was my opinion based on reading this and other forums as I was planning mods on my car. I never lead anyone to believe I did extensive R&D on my car or my statements were based on anything other than reading and researching what others have done and reported back.
sheesh...find someone else to bash.
No bash in my post.
You indicated
"Rush...I hate to tell ya...but pretty much the consensus around the campfire is the N/A Porsche motors are pretty "maxed out" from the factory. Whatever little mods you do here will give you gains that are pretty much negligible. It is NOT worth it to extensively mod a N/A motor."
Maxed out means no room for improvement and negligible means very small. 25 hp is a significant increase in my book and is not what you implied above (my comprehension is good).
When you have 20 plus page threads on Plenums I would hardly call "maxed out" a "consensus"
No flame, just a different opinion.
Registered User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 72
From: Seattle
Rep Power: 22
Facts
Here are a few things to consider. You cannot add all the performance numbers together and I personally do not believe that you can get 350RWHP out of a 996 without opening the motor, forced induction, or NOS. Why can't you add all the numbers up? Two reasons (at least):
1) Many of the parts essentially do the same thing or can counterbalance each other. Example, the Plenum or the K/N CAI can result in a 12+ RWHP (at redline) increase but combined they may only result in a 15+ RWHP (at redline) increase. Therefore the math is... 12+rwhp plus 12+rwhp = 15rwhp
2) The quoted HP gains may be RWHP or RWHP converted to FWHP (aka flywheel).
3) The quoted HP is probably the best Dyno rating they could muster and my not be exactly what you get with your car.
4) The HP could be from the best number found in the range (aka 5600RPM like RSS and many others use) for some parts and not for others. You can't take the HP rating for part 1 that got 15rwhp at 5600 and 2rwhp at 7200 and add it to another part that got 4rwhp at 5600 and 12rwhp at 7200 and come up with 27hp. Even if the parts did different things and you could potentially add the HP (unlikely) you would either have 19rwhp at 5600 or 14rwhp at 7200 but never 27hp.
3) The quoted HP could just be blatantly wrong.
Per my previous post https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=84433 the Plenum does add HP and so does the K/N CAI. For those too lazy to click the link...
All Numbers on Dynojet with SAE correction:
Stock 2003 996 (3.6) = 274.06
Add Plenum (w/o any significant (40+ miles) driving to let CPU readjust) = 278.68
Add K/N CAI (and Plenum) (w/o any significant....) = 286.51
*plenum and cai seem to yeld the most increase at around 5600.
So for $1100+ I got some nice inside the cabin sound, slight but noticeable increase in performance and a 12-15RWHP increase (depending on where in the range).
From my understanding my stock HP is higher than most (260's). RSS showed a dyno (3.6) with just the Plenum and it resulted in a 24RWHP increase at 5600 BUT the car started at 266.3 (max) at stock and ended at 279.1 (max) with the Plenum.
Note, I did not add any other performance parts because I started to do the math (for realzies) and the SC is more bang for buck (when on sale).
1) Many of the parts essentially do the same thing or can counterbalance each other. Example, the Plenum or the K/N CAI can result in a 12+ RWHP (at redline) increase but combined they may only result in a 15+ RWHP (at redline) increase. Therefore the math is... 12+rwhp plus 12+rwhp = 15rwhp
2) The quoted HP gains may be RWHP or RWHP converted to FWHP (aka flywheel).
3) The quoted HP is probably the best Dyno rating they could muster and my not be exactly what you get with your car.
4) The HP could be from the best number found in the range (aka 5600RPM like RSS and many others use) for some parts and not for others. You can't take the HP rating for part 1 that got 15rwhp at 5600 and 2rwhp at 7200 and add it to another part that got 4rwhp at 5600 and 12rwhp at 7200 and come up with 27hp. Even if the parts did different things and you could potentially add the HP (unlikely) you would either have 19rwhp at 5600 or 14rwhp at 7200 but never 27hp.
3) The quoted HP could just be blatantly wrong.
Per my previous post https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=84433 the Plenum does add HP and so does the K/N CAI. For those too lazy to click the link...
All Numbers on Dynojet with SAE correction:
Stock 2003 996 (3.6) = 274.06
Add Plenum (w/o any significant (40+ miles) driving to let CPU readjust) = 278.68
Add K/N CAI (and Plenum) (w/o any significant....) = 286.51
*plenum and cai seem to yeld the most increase at around 5600.
So for $1100+ I got some nice inside the cabin sound, slight but noticeable increase in performance and a 12-15RWHP increase (depending on where in the range).
From my understanding my stock HP is higher than most (260's). RSS showed a dyno (3.6) with just the Plenum and it resulted in a 24RWHP increase at 5600 BUT the car started at 266.3 (max) at stock and ended at 279.1 (max) with the Plenum.
Note, I did not add any other performance parts because I started to do the math (for realzies) and the SC is more bang for buck (when on sale).
Last edited by schnazzy; Mar 18, 2008 at 11:19 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 293
From: London
Rep Power: 30
Schnazzy, read your other thread too. I'm going down the same route, just haven't installed anything yet. Got the plenum from the GB, got the Vflow CAI, got the new Manthey mufflers and have a dyno session booked on the 29th.
Have you chipped and re-dynoed yet? I'll probably chip later in April/May if things look promising...
Have you chipped and re-dynoed yet? I'll probably chip later in April/May if things look promising...
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 309
From: Cincinnati
Rep Power: 0
When I bought headers and mufflers for my 01 C2 from evoms, I was told I'd gain about 20HP/20TQ. I dynoed and didin't gain hardly anything. Tried to return them but to no avail. I bought their original intake (the one that sucks in hot engine air) was told of 7-10hp/tq gains, you guessed it 0 gains. Right after I bought my intake they came out with their new vflow. I asked for a cheap upgrade . . . you can guess the answer to that. Including installation i wasted around 3,000 with evolution motorsports for nothing. I would get a muffler because of the sound. Your best bet I would think is ebay or used somewhere. It's a muffler, who cares if it's new.
Did the car feel faster despite not showing any HP gains on the dyno?
Registered User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 72
From: Seattle
Rep Power: 22
wrote a nice post. 6speed site crapped out. lost it. Not rewritting it. Here is the gist:
another 5-20rwhp for a custom tune would put me over 300rwhp and cost $1500ish. Not sure it is worth it compared to 996tt that are now under $50k with low miles and 600bhp (520rwhp) upgrade kits are getting really inexpensive (hp-to-dollar).
another 5-20rwhp for a custom tune would put me over 300rwhp and cost $1500ish. Not sure it is worth it compared to 996tt that are now under $50k with low miles and 600bhp (520rwhp) upgrade kits are getting really inexpensive (hp-to-dollar).
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 561
From: OC, CA
Rep Power: 43
wrote a nice post. 6speed site crapped out. lost it. Not rewritting it. Here is the gist:
another 5-20rwhp for a custom tune would put me over 300rwhp and cost $1500ish. Not sure it is worth it compared to 996tt that are now under $50k with low miles and 600bhp (520rwhp) upgrade kits are getting really inexpensive (hp-to-dollar).
another 5-20rwhp for a custom tune would put me over 300rwhp and cost $1500ish. Not sure it is worth it compared to 996tt that are now under $50k with low miles and 600bhp (520rwhp) upgrade kits are getting really inexpensive (hp-to-dollar).
You used to be on DTMpwer and bf.c?
We need more people who actually have experience opinion rather than people reading and stating what they read with no experience. That is misleading especially when you read wrong information.
Registered User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 72
From: Seattle
Rep Power: 22
nine9six - Yes, dtm since 2001 as well as other sites. I usually lurk on the sites unless I can help out.
What many boards need is a trust level meter aka reputation/experience besides just stars etc. AND then the users have to use it.
Yeah it is hard to really figure out who really knows what. If I would have posted just the text, people wouldn't believe it because I have no real rep. on this board except via word of mouth from my other adventures.
tks
What many boards need is a trust level meter aka reputation/experience besides just stars etc. AND then the users have to use it.
Yeah it is hard to really figure out who really knows what. If I would have posted just the text, people wouldn't believe it because I have no real rep. on this board except via word of mouth from my other adventures.
tks
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 171
From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Rep Power: 25
My 99 996 has most of the NA mods on it. It came with LSD. It has a EVO CAI, RSS Plenum, Billy Boat headers & mufflers, and a GIAC flash. It also had a BBK SSK, Bilstein PSS9s, and light weight Kinesis wheels. It is the second 99 996 that I have rebuilt from a salvage (extensively documented on Rennlist).
I bought most of my mods used and paid less than half of the new price. I am very pleased with the mods that I have done. I enjoy the increased performance and the improved sound. I returned my previous 996 to stock (and put the mods on my current car) prior to selling it. I didn't enjoy driving it nearly as much in stock form, as I did with the mods.
I don't know how much horsepower or torque I gained from the mods. I do know that I'm pleased with the results and would do all of them again.
The March 08 issue of Total 911 magazine has an article on a modified 03 NA 996. The article states "Various tweaks to the engine have increased the power output from 320bhp to about 370bhp". Those tweaks consisted of an entire Supersprint exhaust system, CAI (hi flow induction), and REVO flash. The owner making the claim was a former VP for Ford. Porscheshop did the upgrades. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the horsepower claims...just posting it for the sake of entertainment. Obviously, there is a great deal of disagreement or the subject of NA mods and the gains to be expected.
I bought most of my mods used and paid less than half of the new price. I am very pleased with the mods that I have done. I enjoy the increased performance and the improved sound. I returned my previous 996 to stock (and put the mods on my current car) prior to selling it. I didn't enjoy driving it nearly as much in stock form, as I did with the mods.
I don't know how much horsepower or torque I gained from the mods. I do know that I'm pleased with the results and would do all of them again.
The March 08 issue of Total 911 magazine has an article on a modified 03 NA 996. The article states "Various tweaks to the engine have increased the power output from 320bhp to about 370bhp". Those tweaks consisted of an entire Supersprint exhaust system, CAI (hi flow induction), and REVO flash. The owner making the claim was a former VP for Ford. Porscheshop did the upgrades. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the horsepower claims...just posting it for the sake of entertainment. Obviously, there is a great deal of disagreement or the subject of NA mods and the gains to be expected.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 172
From: boston
Rep Power: 25
i wish evoms would come up with a stage 2 kit for their superchager, maybe a different piston/cylinder combination with upgraded valve train or more aggressive cams. not sure how cost effective this would be.