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Old Oct 8, 2008 | 10:47 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Choi
you sound like a kw salesman.

bro, all three here are street coilovers so trying to say one is better than the other outside of price is splitting hairs. and who the hell has time to tweak coilover settings assuming we all have real lives here.

+ you would think based on your assessment the kws offer some magical handling advantage over the proven pssX series.

i agree with you: save $ and go PSS9s but i'd also recommend this route even with the KWs included.

go big or stay home meaning in this case, go PSS9s or really up the ante by going with motons/penskes etc.

if you want to feel good about telling people you have all this adjustability, feature by feature type comparisons and this is worth the extra $XXXX, then go for it. otherwise, stick with the 9s as the lowest cost, safe bet upgrade.

do you even begin to track your cabriolet? c'mon man. let's get real here.
Ben, my comments are based on facts. Where's your knowledgeable opinion coming from on KW's? They are clearly a better suspension than pss series in many aspects.
-For starters, your warranty is voided using Bilsteins at the track since they are not designed for that sort of heavy use.
-KW's are designed and bred in the Motorsports arena as well as the street, and they actually encourage you to track on them. As a matter of fact, KW's are tested on the Nurburgring track as part of their engineering QA process and are "proven" by a long list of race winners as well as racing outfits such as Manthey.
http://www.kw-suspension.com/en/90_M...1&anz=10&sub=n

Bilstein pss series are developed and tested under normal street use conditions. "Developed in road trials" is clearly on their website for pss9/10. You will see NO mention of racing or performance use on their website.
If you want performance, you have to go with their MDS series:
http://motorsport.bilstein.de/en/mds-intro.php?navid=13

There's nothing wrong with pss9 for casual / spirited street driving, and the current price on them is great. They are a definite improvment over the factory suspension and if you're only putting around town then you can't go wrong.
My point and opinion is if you are considering the pss10 (obviously wanting the latest / best in a reasonable price range), it is a much better buy on the KWs since they cost about the same and you'll own a set of coilovers that (a) rides better and (b) can take anything you throw at it. They are as easy to set up as pss with the adjustments.

If you are going to stand by lumping KW's the same as pss series, then you haven't done your homework on KW or owned a set personally. If you have data to support your claims to the contrary, do share.

Disclaimer:
I do not work for KW, KN, AfterHours, RSS, Techart, Agency Power, or any other product company mentioned in my posts.
 

Last edited by p0rsch3; Oct 8, 2008 at 10:51 AM.
Old Oct 8, 2008 | 11:20 AM
  #17  
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blah blah blah blah blah drinking out of your wallet/KW koolaid pitcher dude.

look at your cab. look at your vitae. do you go fast around tracks all day? is your pretty 20" Techart 911 a track car?

no. it's a nice street car. the KW coilovers as well as the proven PSSX series adjustable units are... STREET coilovers.

save $, get the 9's and spend some of that extra money on sway bars or something which will make a much more noticeable change in handling dynamics than fiddling around with springs and shocks.

you're freakin' weird dude ahh the internet
 
Old Oct 8, 2008 | 11:41 AM
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^ See? No facts, just conjecture and (as predicted) personal character attacks.
My posts were not about MY car or it's present use, but more of pointing out an educated and discernable difference between 2 products at the relative same price point. Your non-fact-based opinion was these products are the same, which is incorrect, and you cannot bring anything to the table to back up your claims.

-We both agree that pss9 is a great budget buy for daily street driving.
-We both agree that pss10 is not a good buy for the extra $ over pss9
My specific opinion is anyone looking to drop PSS10 money should go with KW as the better performance buy, especially if some track use is in their future plans.

-You don't need upgraded swaybars for street use, waste of $.

-Are you "normal'? (all in good fun Ben)
 
Old Oct 8, 2008 | 11:49 AM
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get a room you two...
 
Old Oct 8, 2008 | 12:08 PM
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Just for Comparison. The best prices I have seen on the 3 shocks that have been discussed in this thread. These prices are for a 996NB

PSS9's $1775 (Shipped, ended 9/30)
PSS10's $1995 (Shipped, I paid $2059 shipped)
KWV3's $2695 (GB price shipped)
 

Last edited by erubin; Oct 8, 2008 at 12:22 PM.
Old Oct 8, 2008 | 01:20 PM
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While I haven't used them on the 911, I've used KW v3s on 3 different cars, and have used PSS9s on 3 cars, 2 of which were the same as I used KW V3s on.

The E46 M3 PSS9s sucked. Not enough travel, too soft of spring meant you were bottoming on large bumps and while cornering. KWs were much better on this car simply because they worked. It saw the track maybe 4 times on the KWs, once on the PSS9s. The KWs never rode quite like stock, and were noticeable harsher... or if I softened them up, they got bouncy.

The 2006 M Roadster got KW V3s because that's all that were available besides the H&R Coilovers, which weren't adjustable. They never rode all that well, although I got them pretty close to stock, when I set them much softer than the recommended adjustments. The car did great at the track, and was very fast, though.

My S2000s, I've run PSS9s on 2, and KW V3 on 1. Again, the V3 never rode as well as stock, but handled pretty well. It was awesome on the track, a lot of control and very little body roll. But, it rode nastily on the street. I replaced them with PSS9s on my 06 s2000, and it gave up some body roll, but rode better than stock and worlds better than the KW. I really liked this, as my 06 was primarily a street car. But, the Bilsteins gave up nothing in terms of shock control to the KWs. Even on the track, the car was never out of control.

I went with PSS9s on my 335, even though I had a bad experience with them on my E46 M3. They performed great on the 335i, the car rode like stock, but took away all of the bounciness and instability under cornering. The car was awesome at the track with this suspension, although it could have used some more negative camber up front.

The KWs are a twin tube design. This means that they cannot use as big of valves as the Bilsteins, nor can they take the heat as well. The V3s in many applications, use a remote reservoir to give the shock more capacity... but Bilstein's single tube design is superior in this, can use bigger valves, giving better overall performance. Bilstein's coilovers are almost all oriented more towards the street, though, and are often tuned for much softer springs. They are good coilovers and, can be rebuilt to any specs you want, here in the US.

I'm not even considering the KWs for my 911.
 
Old Oct 8, 2008 | 02:57 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by erubin
Just for Comparison. The best prices I have seen on the 3 shocks that have been discussed in this thread. These prices are for a 996NB

PSS9's $1775 (Shipped, ended 9/30)
PSS10's $1995 (Shipped, I paid $2059 shipped)
KWV3's $2695 (GB price shipped)
and even based on the pricing above, there's no way i'd ever recommend for someone to fork over an additional $1K to get the Kw3s because you can't begin to say you're better off with the kw3s than the "budget" pss9s.

again, pss9s are PROVEN to be a great street adjustable coilover on the 996s. Kw3s are a complete waste of money unless you like porsche3 above like knowing you spent more and knowing you have more adjustability when in fact, more adjustability isn't necessarily better because suspension tuning is such black magic.

it's like bragging you have a 31-speed mountain bike when 21 speed is already overkill for 99% usefulness. it's silly. that's what it is.

when i had my E46 M3, i did spent more on TC Klines but only because you could lower it more than the pss9s and the tc klines had a matched camber kit to it which i wanted for the fronts. was it overkill? yea, but vanity got a hold of me so i forked over 25% on top to get me the additional .5"-1" drop. on my 996, the lowest recommended pss9 setting is as low as i'd ever want to go.
 
Old Oct 8, 2008 | 10:56 PM
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Ben,

how much drop are you running?
 
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