Where The Hell Am I and What Are All These Lambos Doing Here?
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,034
Rep Power: 0
Not sure if anyone else noticed this last week, but Internet Brands, owner of this site, Rennlist and North American Motoring (Mini site) ALL went down at the same time, including the IB corporate site.
Must have been a huge server blip, but it lasted a good while. Hard to believe they are all tied to the same server.
I still support this site and will continue, but this place has really changed, and it's not for the better.
Bummer.
Must have been a huge server blip, but it lasted a good while. Hard to believe they are all tied to the same server.
I still support this site and will continue, but this place has really changed, and it's not for the better.
Bummer.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 173
From: Landenberg, PA
Rep Power: 25
Not sure if anyone else noticed this last week, but Internet Brands, owner of this site, Rennlist and North American Motoring (Mini site) ALL went down at the same time, including the IB corporate site.
Must have been a huge server blip, but it lasted a good while. Hard to believe they are all tied to the same server.
I still support this site and will continue, but this place has really changed, and it's not for the better.
Bummer.
Must have been a huge server blip, but it lasted a good while. Hard to believe they are all tied to the same server.
I still support this site and will continue, but this place has really changed, and it's not for the better.
Bummer.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,260
From: Austin
Rep Power: 770
The key is whether or not your company would directly benefit from a relationship with or, on the other hand, competes with Porsche or not. If you use a 911 in your ad about accounting software, then it is likely just fair use. But you can't make it look like Porsche endorses your product in any way. That is when you run in to trouble. If a reasonable person watching the ad would be confused as to your companies relationship with Porsche, then you are probably crossing the line.
Most companies, out of an abundance of caution, won't show the Porsche logo in their ads. But the logo is not private information - it is out in the public and can be seen everyday. In fact, Porsche wants people to see their logo as often as possible. If you ever see a logo blurred out - as they often are on MTV - that is not because MTV is afraid of potential law suits. Rather, it is because that company refused to pay MTV for the privilege of having its product or logo placed on an MTV show. So just using images of a Porsche car with the logo on it in an ad unrelated to the auto industry should not be a problem. But if you use it in such a way that makes it look like Porsche endorses you or that you are the "official" product of Porsche users, then you are using the Porsche name to enhance your sales. Then they want a cut.
Think of the world we would live in if each time you used any company's product in an ad you had to pay a royalty? That might kill the entire advertising industry. Hell, everyone would go back to radio. There has to be some level of fair use in the law that allows you to use protected IP without being sued. The key is that you don't cross the line into making it look like you have a relationship with the company whose logo or images you are using.
Don't rely on this short blurb though for any legal issues you may be having. Be sure to check with a lawyer in your jurisdiction for the full story. My advice above is just the tip of a very complicated legal iceberg. I don't represent anyone in here. You all need to get your own lawyers. There, I have now sufficiently covered my ***.
Most companies, out of an abundance of caution, won't show the Porsche logo in their ads. But the logo is not private information - it is out in the public and can be seen everyday. In fact, Porsche wants people to see their logo as often as possible. If you ever see a logo blurred out - as they often are on MTV - that is not because MTV is afraid of potential law suits. Rather, it is because that company refused to pay MTV for the privilege of having its product or logo placed on an MTV show. So just using images of a Porsche car with the logo on it in an ad unrelated to the auto industry should not be a problem. But if you use it in such a way that makes it look like Porsche endorses you or that you are the "official" product of Porsche users, then you are using the Porsche name to enhance your sales. Then they want a cut.
Think of the world we would live in if each time you used any company's product in an ad you had to pay a royalty? That might kill the entire advertising industry. Hell, everyone would go back to radio. There has to be some level of fair use in the law that allows you to use protected IP without being sued. The key is that you don't cross the line into making it look like you have a relationship with the company whose logo or images you are using.
Don't rely on this short blurb though for any legal issues you may be having. Be sure to check with a lawyer in your jurisdiction for the full story. My advice above is just the tip of a very complicated legal iceberg. I don't represent anyone in here. You all need to get your own lawyers. There, I have now sufficiently covered my ***.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 361
From: Cali
Rep Power: 34
They use vbulletin software to run the forums. You can either purchase a license on your own server or have them host it for you. If the forums are not owned by the same person then more than likely it was vbulletin that had the problem - which would explain why all forums went down.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 605
From: Baton Rouge LA
Rep Power: 43
I think the idea of using members car is a great idea.
Could Porsche keep that from happening?
But look at it from the 6speeds owners, will they loose money because of this? I dont think they will, I forsee 6speed just going to a generic header and not having any Porsches in them.
Could Porsche keep that from happening?
But look at it from the 6speeds owners, will they loose money because of this? I dont think they will, I forsee 6speed just going to a generic header and not having any Porsches in them.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,034
Rep Power: 0
The legal issue is this: Any commercial venture CANNOT under any circumstances other than direct permission from PAG, use the full image of a Porsche vehicle or the Porsche crest or trade dress.
Though most of us see this as a forum for exchanging ideas/opinions/etc, it IS a commercial venture, with paying sponsors, owned by IB. You just cannot do it.
Trust me, I know.
Though most of us see this as a forum for exchanging ideas/opinions/etc, it IS a commercial venture, with paying sponsors, owned by IB. You just cannot do it.
Trust me, I know.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,405
From: New Jersey
Rep Power: 86
I couldn't agree more Eric...seems that since the site was sold it's all about non stop ads in your face...more and more abnoxious vendors (not you of course)...it seems like all posts are selling something...and I get PM'd all the time with people trying to sell to me...WTF happened to this place?? It's really dissapointing.
Thread Starter
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Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 839
From: Orange County, CA
Rep Power: 58
The legal issue is this: Any commercial venture CANNOT under any circumstances other than direct permission from PAG, use the full image of a Porsche vehicle or the Porsche crest or trade dress.
Though most of us see this as a forum for exchanging ideas/opinions/etc, it IS a commercial venture, with paying sponsors, owned by IB. You just cannot do it.
Trust me, I know.
Though most of us see this as a forum for exchanging ideas/opinions/etc, it IS a commercial venture, with paying sponsors, owned by IB. You just cannot do it.
Trust me, I know.
The area of law we are discussing has as many exceptions as it does rules. A good IP lawyer could make a laundry list of reasons why what you say above doesn't apply to a given set of facts. Certainly, you stated Porsche's position very well. In fact, that felt like a direct quote from a not-so-friendly letter you may have recieved from Porsche yourself in the past. But just because they are the big boys on the block and carry a massive stick, it does not mean that they are always right. When it comes to the Internet, IP law is not at all clear cut or straight forward. I have worked on half a dozen cases in the past year where it looked like the law was clearly in our favor. But once the Internet became part of the equation, all of the traditional rules went out the window. It is kind of like the Old West and the law gets written largely on a case-by-case basis. You simply cannot generalize or make blanket statements at all. Any IP lawyer worth his or her salt can make an argument as to why you don't infringe or, at the very least, that the infringement has caused no damages to the IP owner.The best thing to do is just blame all of this trouble on us damn lawyers and move on.
Last edited by Barrister; Jul 13, 2008 at 09:19 PM.
