997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#47
09-30-2008, 06:58 PM
Dblock - no worries about offending me. It is just a car 
$5-6K - is the price to change the brakes so far. I am am making a point of the costs of the maintenance for a car in the 70-80K range is fairly high and for being a Nissan it should not go hand in hand for high costs maitenance.
In reference to the motor - I heard $60K but I also thought the same thing about the cost. It didn't seem right. I would still think at least 30K for the motor. I will try to find the total cost from the the blown motor here locally.
The 70 launches is crazy but then again it should not allow you to continually run it in cycles but it does. It know it can read fluid temps but they need a shut down mode for abuse to save the transmisson.
I would not want to own this car pre-owned unless I could get a full reading of how many launches it has had. Also the tires looks likely to wear in about 4-5K miles. Not a good thing either for a car in the $70-80K range. Since they are special tires associated to this car. I heard the costs is around $2-2.5K for them.
My point is that is supposed to be a DD and for being a Nissan the cost to maintain seems to be in the Lambo, Ferrari, etc category.The $240 oil change has been mentioned several times.
The 1800km fluid changes required/recommended is stickered on it. That is an expensive fluid change requirement.
I have said it before and I will say it again. I would not mind owning one of these after they get the kinks worked out and the maintenance costs down. Otherwise in one year I could be at more than 10% of the cars cost in repairs/maintenance.
Does that make sense?
$5-6K - is the price to change the brakes so far. I am am making a point of the costs of the maintenance for a car in the 70-80K range is fairly high and for being a Nissan it should not go hand in hand for high costs maitenance.
In reference to the motor - I heard $60K but I also thought the same thing about the cost. It didn't seem right. I would still think at least 30K for the motor. I will try to find the total cost from the the blown motor here locally.
The 70 launches is crazy but then again it should not allow you to continually run it in cycles but it does. It know it can read fluid temps but they need a shut down mode for abuse to save the transmisson.
I would not want to own this car pre-owned unless I could get a full reading of how many launches it has had. Also the tires looks likely to wear in about 4-5K miles. Not a good thing either for a car in the $70-80K range. Since they are special tires associated to this car. I heard the costs is around $2-2.5K for them.
My point is that is supposed to be a DD and for being a Nissan the cost to maintain seems to be in the Lambo, Ferrari, etc category.The $240 oil change has been mentioned several times.
The 1800km fluid changes required/recommended is stickered on it. That is an expensive fluid change requirement.
I have said it before and I will say it again. I would not mind owning one of these after they get the kinks worked out and the maintenance costs down. Otherwise in one year I could be at more than 10% of the cars cost in repairs/maintenance.
Does that make sense?
This car just doesn't resemble typical nissan's though, its proven its point and it just can't do it for cheap
It would be a pretty expensive DD and I agree with the pre-owned....way too risky
#48
09-30-2008, 06:58 PM
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The early tests by the british media had the TT drifting around and the GT-R beating it by 1 second, then later tests were between 1-2 seconds while the TT was on PS2, then all of a sudden the GT-R is beating the GT2 by one second on MPSC, and beating the Lambo SL, and LP, and running with the CGT and Scuderia. Those are two different leagues altogether, and obsurd to think the same car is doing both without some help.
Most tests are consistent between the car they compete with. The Z06 and GT3 are usually pretty close, neck and neck actually in most test +/- one second. But the GT-R seems to beat everyone by one second up to tying the CGT. Doesnt add up. It even beat the R8 by one second in one test.
And then when the GT-R shows up, the TT, which had never run with the Z06 prior to, all of a sudden is as fast, and the R8 beats the GT2 now. Just seems planned to me.
In the US it was carefully planned to have Steve Millen head much of the testing, to assure the GT-R had the "best" chance to win. But all the important tests they've had someone who's tested the GT-R extensively (Tony Swan 1 Lap and Lightning Lap)
I think we underestimate what can be bought these days. Put all of the info together and it smells like foul play.
Most tests are consistent between the car they compete with. The Z06 and GT3 are usually pretty close, neck and neck actually in most test +/- one second. But the GT-R seems to beat everyone by one second up to tying the CGT. Doesnt add up. It even beat the R8 by one second in one test.
And then when the GT-R shows up, the TT, which had never run with the Z06 prior to, all of a sudden is as fast, and the R8 beats the GT2 now. Just seems planned to me.
In the US it was carefully planned to have Steve Millen head much of the testing, to assure the GT-R had the "best" chance to win. But all the important tests they've had someone who's tested the GT-R extensively (Tony Swan 1 Lap and Lightning Lap)
I think we underestimate what can be bought these days. Put all of the info together and it smells like foul play.
#51
09-30-2008, 07:12 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
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Rep Power: 550 I'm the notorious anti-GT-R. All the fanboys hate me.
Question for 997 TT owners, are MPSC a factory option on the TT here? Or just in Europe? Both or Neither?
If Porsche put non option tires on it, I cant back that. But the GT-R was still a ringer.
WHICH IS WHY NO FANBOYS CAN ANSWER WHY THE RING GT-R's ARE AS FAST AS ZONDA's AND ZR-1's ON THE STRAIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY ?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
When someone can offer a legit reason for that, I'll shutup. It better be good though, no B.S.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-30-2008 at 07:23 PM.
#53
09-30-2008, 07:27 PM
"GT-R ACHIEVES UNDER 7:30 AT NÜRBURGRING
- GT-R among the fastest ever production road cars at the 'Ring' -
Nissan today announced that its GT-R supercar achieved a lap time at the infamous Nürburgring in Germany of seven minutes and 29 seconds. Recorded on April 16 and 17, the GT-R used was a base specification car and fitted with the standard Japanese market tyres. Driven by GT-R chief test driver Tochio Suzuki, this latest lap time beats the previous fastest time for the GT-R by nine seconds."
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/g...-down-to-7-29/
what makes this statement any less valid than the one you posted.
picture taken from Edmunds.com when they personally witnessed the GTR's 7:38sec record lap time. looks like the stock potenza's to me
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...leId=123066#64
The only reason why i care so much is because this heavy guy is really beginning to bother me. people like you are dangerous to society. the fact that people can make a rationalization so quickly without any evidence whatsoever bothers me even more.
- GT-R among the fastest ever production road cars at the 'Ring' -
Nissan today announced that its GT-R supercar achieved a lap time at the infamous Nürburgring in Germany of seven minutes and 29 seconds. Recorded on April 16 and 17, the GT-R used was a base specification car and fitted with the standard Japanese market tyres. Driven by GT-R chief test driver Tochio Suzuki, this latest lap time beats the previous fastest time for the GT-R by nine seconds."
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/g...-down-to-7-29/
what makes this statement any less valid than the one you posted.
picture taken from Edmunds.com when they personally witnessed the GTR's 7:38sec record lap time. looks like the stock potenza's to me
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...leId=123066#64
The only reason why i care so much is because this heavy guy is really beginning to bother me. people like you are dangerous to society. the fact that people can make a rationalization so quickly without any evidence whatsoever bothers me even more.
Last edited by zosomoso; 09-30-2008 at 07:40 PM.
#54
09-30-2008, 07:39 PM
WHICH IS WHY NO FANBOYS CAN ANSWER WHY THE RING GT-R's ARE AS FAST AS ZONDA's AND ZR-1's ON THE STRAIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY ?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
When someone can offer a legit reason for that, I'll shutup. It better be good though, no B.S.
#56
09-30-2008, 07:44 PM
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Because it still doesnt explain how the GT-R is acclerating with cars much faster than it on the back straight. No pictures can alleviate that. And there is no telling when that picture was taken. Many of us were born at night, not last night.
Nissan had the GT-R tires specially made, if you look at time attack, no one in the states can beat the hks EVO largely due to the Advan A048's that the car uses. A048's are available here, but no where near as sticky as the Japan only models, and they wont ship them here, impossible to get here.
It's as easy as getting the tires specially made to keep up the appearance. That picture does nothing at all. Just like the video doesnt alleviate anything, because it was taken from inside the car.
Nissan's had this problem in the past with other people trying to duplicate their ring times and failing. A LOT OF PEOPLE......
Nissan had the GT-R tires specially made, if you look at time attack, no one in the states can beat the hks EVO largely due to the Advan A048's that the car uses. A048's are available here, but no where near as sticky as the Japan only models, and they wont ship them here, impossible to get here.
It's as easy as getting the tires specially made to keep up the appearance. That picture does nothing at all. Just like the video doesnt alleviate anything, because it was taken from inside the car.
Nissan's had this problem in the past with other people trying to duplicate their ring times and failing. A LOT OF PEOPLE......
#57
09-30-2008, 07:53 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
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Rep Power: 550 The GT-R is already in 5th shortly after 100 mph, the gearing is short, there arent many shifts from 100-170, it's all power. 2-3 shifts at most. Gear changes get you going from a stop, not nearly as much affect after that. And there is no amount of gear change that can alleviate 5-10 seconds on one straight after 100 mph. Besides the shorter gearing hurts you after 100 mph. The GT-R is geared to get to 100 fast, after that it falls off. Then combined with the extra drag from the AWD it would be hurting even more.
The ZR-1 exited that turn before that straight at ~107, and for the duration of the lap the ZR-1 and GT-R took turns at about the same speed, so the GT-R had no cornering advantage. They likely exited about the same speed, where the ZR-1 would leave a stock GT-R in the dust by a mile.
Even with a headwind and uphill, the ZR-1 matched a stock Z06's accel on a fat surface at those speeds. The GT-R didnt have the headwind, but it was going up hill.
This would be like a Z06 on a flat surface vs a GT-R going uphill. The Z06 doesnt even need that advantage to slaughter the GT-R. There is no explanation. The Zonda also had no head wind, and neither did the Z06 that spor auto drove. The GT-R had some extra juice, PERIOD.
Mind you the ZR-1 was on PS2's with an engineer, not an F1 driver, and still was able to corner the same speed with much more power.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-30-2008 at 07:58 PM.
#58
09-30-2008, 08:06 PM
The GT-R matched the speed of the faster cars, which is the problem.
The GT-R is already in 5th shortly after 100 mph, the gearing is short, there arent many shifts from 100-170, it's all power. 2-3 shifts at most. Gear changes get you going from a stop, not nearly as much affect after that. And there is no amount of gear change that can alleviate 5-10 seconds on one straight after 100 mph. Besides the shorter gearing hurts you after 100 mph. The GT-R is geared to get to 100 fast, after that it falls off. Then combined with the extra drag from the AWD it would be hurting even more.
The ZR-1 exited that turn before that straight at ~107, and for the duration of the lap the ZR-1 and GT-R took turns at about the same speed, so the GT-R had no cornering advantage. They likely exited about the same speed, where the ZR-1 would leave a stock GT-R in the dust by a mile.
Even with a headwind and uphill, the ZR-1 matched a stock Z06's accel on a fat surface at those speeds. The GT-R didnt have the headwind, but it was going up hill.
This would be like a Z06 on a flat surface vs a GT-R going uphill. The Z06 doesn't even need that advantage to slaughter the GT-R. There is no explanation. The Zonda also had no head wind, and neither did the Z06 that spor auto drove. The GT-R had some extra juice, PERIOD.
Mind you the ZR-1 was on PS2's with an engineer, not an F1 driver, and still was able to corner the same speed with much more power.
The GT-R is already in 5th shortly after 100 mph, the gearing is short, there arent many shifts from 100-170, it's all power. 2-3 shifts at most. Gear changes get you going from a stop, not nearly as much affect after that. And there is no amount of gear change that can alleviate 5-10 seconds on one straight after 100 mph. Besides the shorter gearing hurts you after 100 mph. The GT-R is geared to get to 100 fast, after that it falls off. Then combined with the extra drag from the AWD it would be hurting even more.
The ZR-1 exited that turn before that straight at ~107, and for the duration of the lap the ZR-1 and GT-R took turns at about the same speed, so the GT-R had no cornering advantage. They likely exited about the same speed, where the ZR-1 would leave a stock GT-R in the dust by a mile.
Even with a headwind and uphill, the ZR-1 matched a stock Z06's accel on a fat surface at those speeds. The GT-R didnt have the headwind, but it was going up hill.
This would be like a Z06 on a flat surface vs a GT-R going uphill. The Z06 doesn't even need that advantage to slaughter the GT-R. There is no explanation. The Zonda also had no head wind, and neither did the Z06 that spor auto drove. The GT-R had some extra juice, PERIOD.
Mind you the ZR-1 was on PS2's with an engineer, not an F1 driver, and still was able to corner the same speed with much more power.
GTR Is 0.27
Turbo is 0.31
Z06 is 0.34
Im not the scientist in that area, im a lurker and automotive FANBOi
But some1 should comment on how much advantage that is in upper end. In other words could GTR penetrate air much less resistent and thats why it would reach same speeds? I belive at higher speeds mass is not relevent as it is HP and Drag???Just my assumption!
Last edited by Vladcanada; 09-30-2008 at 08:11 PM.
#59
09-30-2008, 08:10 PM
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it's obvious that the GTR is the worlds fastest, best handling, roomiest, best looking and the only car young women want to jump into. but, my new turbo arrives within 4 weeks.
#60
09-30-2008, 08:21 PM
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Aero cant do that much to make up for the weight/power differences. These cars arent in the same category.
ZR-1 3300/640 -------------> 5.15/1 lbs per hp
Zonda 2700/600------------> 4.5/1 lbs per hp
GT-R 3800/500 (high end)---> 7.6/1 lbs per hp
The Z06 has a higher Cd, and poor gearing after 150 and still beat the GT-R by 7 seconds to 170 mph Also the GT-R has a large frontal area, so the Cd doesnt tell the whole story. I can assure you that through power and gearing the ZR-1 is faster by a good bit than that Z06at higher speeds.
Whatever the GT-R gained in aero would be lost by AWD drag. Power may not be going to the wheels, but there are still moving parts.
ZR-1 3300/640 -------------> 5.15/1 lbs per hp
Zonda 2700/600------------> 4.5/1 lbs per hp
GT-R 3800/500 (high end)---> 7.6/1 lbs per hp
The Z06 has a higher Cd, and poor gearing after 150 and still beat the GT-R by 7 seconds to 170 mph Also the GT-R has a large frontal area, so the Cd doesnt tell the whole story. I can assure you that through power and gearing the ZR-1 is faster by a good bit than that Z06at higher speeds.
Whatever the GT-R gained in aero would be lost by AWD drag. Power may not be going to the wheels, but there are still moving parts.