Ideal climate for a Turbo run ?
Just a little physics here...
If the goal is to get as much air as possible into the combustion chamber (more importantly, you want to get as much Oxygen as you can, because that is what burns the fuel) as possible, you guys are correct...density is important.
Since generally gas molecules will pack in tighter at lower temps, lower temp is definitely the better situation for a turbo (or N/A as well).
Humidity is a bit of a different beast...and somewhat counter-intuitive. You would think that humid air is more dense, since you have air plus the additional water vapor. Reality is that the water vapor displaces the air. End result is actually less dense air as the water molecules have lower molecular weight than the N2 and O2 that you displace. More importantly, this hurts you because now the air (with it's critical 20 ish percent oxygen) is being displaced by water which is of no value in combustion.
Anyhow...best condition for engine output would be cold, dense, dry air. If you could get to death valley on the coldest morning of the year, that might be a target...
Now...air drag goes 180 degrees in the other direction...go figure...
If the goal is to get as much air as possible into the combustion chamber (more importantly, you want to get as much Oxygen as you can, because that is what burns the fuel) as possible, you guys are correct...density is important.
Since generally gas molecules will pack in tighter at lower temps, lower temp is definitely the better situation for a turbo (or N/A as well).
Humidity is a bit of a different beast...and somewhat counter-intuitive. You would think that humid air is more dense, since you have air plus the additional water vapor. Reality is that the water vapor displaces the air. End result is actually less dense air as the water molecules have lower molecular weight than the N2 and O2 that you displace. More importantly, this hurts you because now the air (with it's critical 20 ish percent oxygen) is being displaced by water which is of no value in combustion.
Anyhow...best condition for engine output would be cold, dense, dry air. If you could get to death valley on the coldest morning of the year, that might be a target...
Now...air drag goes 180 degrees in the other direction...go figure...
Muerdueme -Great info . The choice of Death Valley certainly sounds great regionally (USA) but I have seen video of Porsche cold weather testing in the Arctic Circle . Antacatica (South) has some of the coldest and dry deserts . Now at what point is rubber and heating ability of car compromised to hinder the performance in a quest for the highest density air ?
In short to select the "ideal" temperature would have to include other factors too --but I can't help but wonder how much better the best time in the ideal conditions would be .
Yes --physics used to pick the home court advantage has at least ruled out some regions.
In short to select the "ideal" temperature would have to include other factors too --but I can't help but wonder how much better the best time in the ideal conditions would be .
Yes --physics used to pick the home court advantage has at least ruled out some regions.
MEURDEME said it very well. In addition, there's a caviot with that formula that deals with Turbo's and Inter-coolers. The colder air is more dense (good thing), yet, it also produces a hotter exhaust temp which over works the inter-coolers, allowing higher temps back into the combustion chamber (bad thing) and neutralizing the cold air.
I used to rally Saab's, one of the best results we got was to increase the exit air off the inter-cooler. (This has always been an overlooked solution in my opinion and why little results are found with intercooler upgrades). We modified the exit air off an undercarrage panel causing a venturi effect which literally pulled air through the intercooler when in motion. Uniquely - the results couldn't be found on the dyno as the air wasn't moving over/under the car.
The 'ideal-for-turbo' is cold, (moderately) moist air. Rarely found regularly in nature, but on cool nights, after a warm day, you can find "ground-fog" settling in valleys. These phenoms happen all over the Northeast States and all over Europe in the spring and fall. (And one of my favorite runs, Route 74 - Ortega Pkwy, Southern CA.) Anyone who's driven (turbo's) aggressively through a "light-ground-fog" on a cool spring/fall night feels the power increase immediately. The denser air packs more punch, and the humidity helps the inter-cooler operate far more efficiently.
At Saab (back in the 80's) we experimented with 'water injection' at all temperatures to optimize the inter-coolers. When we weren't rallying - we were allowed to run "field experiments", taking the 'retired sleds' and modify them with 'water-injection systems', using dry-ice mixed with regular ice as a control to add just enough moisture, yet not have the ice melt too quickly in temps over 80 degrees. When it worked (not often
) it was spectacular. We could run for an hours with strong boost in any hot, dry condition.
The downside of these systems was the water itself. Water will denigrate/corrode/oxidize/etc all metals, so in the long term this isn't the greatest solution.
Water filtration technology is getting ahead of that, and an old racing engineer friend with an R & D technology team for Volkswagen was experimenting with the condensation off the air-conditioning system (evaporator trays) and using it as a constant water source to assist the DFI Diesel Turbo Inter-coolers in high temperature conditions.
Since Porsche & VW will certainly share developments, it'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Hope this helps with a little clarity.
I used to rally Saab's, one of the best results we got was to increase the exit air off the inter-cooler. (This has always been an overlooked solution in my opinion and why little results are found with intercooler upgrades). We modified the exit air off an undercarrage panel causing a venturi effect which literally pulled air through the intercooler when in motion. Uniquely - the results couldn't be found on the dyno as the air wasn't moving over/under the car.
The 'ideal-for-turbo' is cold, (moderately) moist air. Rarely found regularly in nature, but on cool nights, after a warm day, you can find "ground-fog" settling in valleys. These phenoms happen all over the Northeast States and all over Europe in the spring and fall. (And one of my favorite runs, Route 74 - Ortega Pkwy, Southern CA.) Anyone who's driven (turbo's) aggressively through a "light-ground-fog" on a cool spring/fall night feels the power increase immediately. The denser air packs more punch, and the humidity helps the inter-cooler operate far more efficiently.
At Saab (back in the 80's) we experimented with 'water injection' at all temperatures to optimize the inter-coolers. When we weren't rallying - we were allowed to run "field experiments", taking the 'retired sleds' and modify them with 'water-injection systems', using dry-ice mixed with regular ice as a control to add just enough moisture, yet not have the ice melt too quickly in temps over 80 degrees. When it worked (not often
) it was spectacular. We could run for an hours with strong boost in any hot, dry condition. The downside of these systems was the water itself. Water will denigrate/corrode/oxidize/etc all metals, so in the long term this isn't the greatest solution.
Water filtration technology is getting ahead of that, and an old racing engineer friend with an R & D technology team for Volkswagen was experimenting with the condensation off the air-conditioning system (evaporator trays) and using it as a constant water source to assist the DFI Diesel Turbo Inter-coolers in high temperature conditions.
Since Porsche & VW will certainly share developments, it'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Hope this helps with a little clarity.
^^^Interesting. We get cool foggy weather here in the Pacific Northwest also - in fact have had some recently. Instead of going to the gym in the early mornings, perhaps I should skip a day and take a drive. I'll give my turbos a workout! Thanks for the information.
Another 2 cents...
As some have posted, best condition for a 1/4 mile run is not always just as simple as max HP due to how much Oxygen you can jam into your cumbustion chamber.
Here are a couple more to add to it...people can probably come up with much more (like the intercooler efficiency example above...never thought of that one...)
Best conditions for...
Engine HP...cold, dry, low elevation, high barometric pressure day.
Air drag...hot, humid, low barometric pressure day.
Traction...generally improved with higher tire and road temps. (I'm not really sure what humidity would do here...seems intuitive that humidity would work counter to good traction, but it can also impact things like static charge, swelling of elastomers, who knows what...)
Attractiveness...generally things look better after approximately 3 drinks...
Cost...generally performance increases in relation to dollar loss...however, the amount of dollar loss to increase performance becomes exponential. Strangely at time of sale...said increased performance leads to even more dollar loss...go figure...
As some have posted, best condition for a 1/4 mile run is not always just as simple as max HP due to how much Oxygen you can jam into your cumbustion chamber.
Here are a couple more to add to it...people can probably come up with much more (like the intercooler efficiency example above...never thought of that one...)
Best conditions for...
Engine HP...cold, dry, low elevation, high barometric pressure day.
Air drag...hot, humid, low barometric pressure day.
Traction...generally improved with higher tire and road temps. (I'm not really sure what humidity would do here...seems intuitive that humidity would work counter to good traction, but it can also impact things like static charge, swelling of elastomers, who knows what...)
Attractiveness...generally things look better after approximately 3 drinks...
Cost...generally performance increases in relation to dollar loss...however, the amount of dollar loss to increase performance becomes exponential. Strangely at time of sale...said increased performance leads to even more dollar loss...go figure...
Porsche builds these cars to work just about anyplace in the world you can drive them to! The power difference between the different climates is not as important as proper maintenance and good fuel, at least in stock form. Hot roads with sticky rubber is always the best though, that’s a fact!
altitude isn't a big deal since the compressors take care of compressing the air for you anyway. it's a distinct advantage of turbocharging vs NA cars.
since you're in Florida, it doesn't matter which weather is best. you're stuck in the heat, and that's not ideal for ANY form of performance driving.
since you're in Florida, it doesn't matter which weather is best. you're stuck in the heat, and that's not ideal for ANY form of performance driving.
Sounds like fun!
19F this am in NY Metro. Nokian WR/NO's. Car definitely feels stronger than in hot summer conditions.
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