If you dont want to lower the car and, intend using it mainly as a DD then better to stay stock. The coilovers can be a bit jiggy on street. I found the soft setting is pretty close to the normal sport setting and car is also way tauter as well.....much sportier drive...but not nearly as forgiving as the stock setup.

 

Hi Alex, I don't doubt your finding at all, but based on my own settings and numerous previous posted experience with Bilstein (for example see NeilM's above -- and he's an experienced driver who tracks the car), and my conversations with Bilstein, the above should not be the case at all. And if it is, then there is something wrong with your installed coilover. In fact, yours is the first time I ever see any such strange behavior.

The specs for Bilstein is 10-30mm lowering front, 5-25 rear. Even at 25 mm one should still be well within safety limit. The only time that I see report similar to yours was one where the lowering went to something horrendous like around 35-40 mm.

Such acute transition as you are reporting is consistent with the shaft hitting the internal bump stop. At 20mm, it's not possible unless there is something wrong.

ilnino,
Not entirely sure but I believe there is one member here who installs Bilstein without lowering. I don't recall any problem reported.
But it is true, you should lower around 10mm front and 5mm rear if you want to confrom to spec. As NeilM has mentioned, and I agree, the Bisltein stiffer spring is the most important upgrade to the Turbo. IMHO more so than any other mod, and I do think there is reasonably high chance that you will love it and you will never go back to stock.

 

The lower the car (set by adjusting the dampeners height) the less travel in the dampeners, the less cushioning you get when you go over bumpy roads...

The ride height is the only thing you can adjust in the B16 Damptronics:



The more turns upwards you set the locking nut the lower the car and the more compressed the spring is. This makes a huge difference to ride harshness.

I have tried -25mm, -20mm and -15mm (and then sagging adjustments, which allow you to set even more travel in the dampeners)

 

Alex, no no no no no!!
1. Linear spring rate does NOT change with position until all coils are fully compressed. And we are far, far from that at 20mm.
2. Dampener bump/rebound force does NOT change with position within specs. It's the speed of the bump/rebound that affects dampening force. This is otherwise known as the shaft velocity. Shaft velocity is determined by how fast you are entering the curve (low speed bump) and the shape of the obstacle on the road and how fast you are moving when you hit that obstacle (high speed bump).

Like I said, such acute transition at 15-20mm as you are reporting has **never** been seen before on a properly functioning Bilstein coilover. If you just PM any of these pro's here (AWE, EVOMS, Sharkwerks, etc.), or call Bilstein, I strongly believe they will tell you the same thing.

 

I cannot tell you how nasty even -20mm was on public roads even going 20 mph. You could feel it in your spine, and none of my friends/family would come out in the car with me. It was much worse than stock Sport PASM. Now at -15mm it is the same as stock Sport PASM was. You are trying to tell me that's just coincidence? Especially as each adjust up by 2-3mm after sagging, the suspension has become noticeably softer.

If so then we are running very different Dampeners you and I.

It's completely logical to me. If you compress those springs then of course you are going to get a harsher ride.

 

if the springs are linear you should be able to compress them over a decent range with no impact on harshness.

 

Well given the clearance over the wheels to the top of the arches in these pics of my car set at -20mm:



(which was too harsh)

...I dont think this was out of spec range. I am starting to think that the most likely culprit here for the difference in observations is road quality of US vs UK. UK b-roads are a bit like driving off-road on a dirt-track! Setting the car to -15mm allows near stock levels of comfort with the creaminess and road holding compliance of the B16s. -20mm and you would have tooth-ache after 30 mins of driving

 

I don't dispute your finding at all, merely suggesting that if there is such acute transition at 15-20, then there is something wrong. Even with other Bilstein coilovers, there should be no such transition at 15-20mm. Seriously, the only reason I bring this up today is not to tell you what's best for your car, but to make sure other people not be confused and think that 15mm is max lowering on Bilstein.

One of the most fundamental principles of spring behavior is that a linear spring, if properly functioning, does not change rate when compressed until all coils are compressed -- and all coils are MOST DEFINITELY not compressed unless you are hitting a big bump at 200 mph . (I encourage you to call your tuner to check on this fact.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspens...e)#Spring_rate
An example of a linear spring rate is 500 lbf/in. For every inch the spring is compressed, it exerts 500 lbf. A non-linear spring rate is one for which the relation between the spring's compression and the force exerted cannot be fitted adequately to a linear model. For example, the first inch exerts 500 lbf force, the second inch exerts an additional 550 lbf (for a total of 1050 lbf), the third inch exerts another 600 lbf (for a total of 1650 lbf). In contrast a 500 lbf/in linear spring compressed to 3 inches will only exert 1500 lbf.

 

i've read with interest in the past about Alex's change in his cars behavior from small changes in ride height as well as "sagging", and readjusting for it.

I recently visited the new site that the guys formerly of Farnbacher Loles opened up. I asked about sagging and they looked at me like I had two heads. I was told it will not sag unless something is very wrong?

 

Hi Chris

I thought all suspension sags over time?!

My installer's obsession to detail and accuracy is verging on the OCD and so I have it measured every time I go back there (which is about 5 times now). How many customers return to their shop to have their ride height measured regularly after installing new suspension? I doubt very many even go back at all...

Most installers I hear about in the US measure ride height from the fenders or other strange locations and not the Porsche official positions. This is wildly inaccurate. Only in the last year or so have myself and Can provided info on the web where this should be properly done from.

This is my sagging history:

@0 miles: stock suspension (bottom of the range Bilsteins)

Factory front = 132 mm +/- 10mm
Factory rear = 153 mm +/- 10mm

@7500 miles: B16 Damptronics (top of the range Bilsteins)

Front: 134 mm
Rear: 140 mm (bigggg sag, and huge change in rake ie. the nose should be pointing downwards and it was nearly level!)

Reset to 119/132mm F/R

@10500 miles: B16 Damptronics (top of the range Bilsteins)

Front: 112 mm (sagged 7mm)
Rear: 128 mm (sagged 4mm)

Reset to: 117/138mm F/R (-15mm stock)

@17000 miles: B16 Damptronics (top of the range Bilsteins)

Front: 115.5 mm (sagged 1.5mm)
Rear: 135.5 mm (sagged 2.5mm)

Reset to: 117/138mm F/R (-15mm stock) - shouldn't be any more sagging now

The sagging is worse with stock Bilstein's than the B16 Damptronic kit. I'd say it takes between 3000-5000 miles before the suspension fully settles.

So with the B16's the front sagged a total of 8.5mm and the back 6.5mm across 10k miles as it settled.

 

I have emailed Chris for him to help explain it. He talks with Bilstein every day so if he can't then they should be able to. I will get back to you with what I hear back.

 

OP if your not prepared to make compromises to your existing comfort levels then dont fit damptronics period...especially if you dont want to lower for looks and you only use as a DD.

There are some distinct benefits but most are all associated to driving on the limmit at the track (so long as the surfaces are really smooth that is). The only other you will notice is the removal of the nose bobbing you sometimes get over undulations in normal mode but thats tolerable anyway in normal driving situations. Just my humble opinion based on my own experience when i had them in my 997S. Dont get me wrong it wasnt all bad by any stretch but it's an aquired taste. Damptronics were a love hate relationship. There were days i hated it and days I loved it. I also was doing a number of track days at that stage hence the toleration to the "hate" side of it. As I said you need to be prepared for compromise.
PS;You will notice you seat springs really get a work out over certain surfaces..like a jiggy buggy ride. The earlier Post saying you dont want to be holding any beverages is accurate and your family wont shine to it as i found (not that thats everything).

 

I am really curious if anyone that has the Damptronic setup has ever driven a GT3RS? I would be curious to hear of the comparison.
I just sold my RS and bought a Turbo and I am leaning towards this suspension mod.

TIA,
Pete

 

Absolutely. And it's great that your tuner provided the Turbo stock ride heights (Oddly enough, I was unable to find it anywhere else, until you posted!) and pictures of how they are measured. Together with the diagram, I am now able to do it easily (takes minutes) -- only problem is I don't know what my neighbors think of me anymore, sprawling under the car with a ruler.

FWIW, with the Bilstein "stage 2" stiffer spring change, my car is now set at 12mm (half inch) lowering, front and rear, from 132/153 stock.

 

Hello
I have a question about PASM with the bilstein damptronic. When driving stock, there was a huge difference between normal setting and sport setting. But now, with the damtronic, there is no more difference at all.... Do you guys with damptronic experience the same?
The normal setting with damptronic is supposed to be stiffer, the sport setting should be al little bit more comfortable than stock. So the difference with damptronic normal and sport mode should be smaller than stock, but still there should be a difference...

Hanspeter