More effective: mod VGT exducer or inducer?
#31
08-22-2010, 02:12 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 133
Rep Power: 31 
that's what im trying to find too, the Holy Grail
#32
08-22-2010, 03:18 PM
6.69 - Shotcaller / 997TT AWD / 1-shift
6.99 - Eclou / 997TT AWD / 1-shift
7.18 - Madsex323 / 997TT AWD / 1-shift
7.32 - TTdude / 997TT AWD / 0-shifts
Don't know what all the other upgrades are, fuel, conditions, etc...(too lazy to search for them all).
#34
08-22-2010, 08:01 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 133
Rep Power: 31
do TPC and Protomotive sell the same ones?
#36
08-23-2010, 02:01 PM
Former Vendor
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Age: 52
Posts: 67
Rep Power: 0
There are other advantages to clipping the turbine. With VTG, you can very quickly run out of vane frequency range. When you make big power, but want the VTG to still reliably control boost and follow the requested target, clipping is a way to achieve this. There are other VTG mods that are done to the turbine, but as others have pointed out, we as well as other tuners keep this information propriatary.
Champion also offers the Billet compressor housing which matches the increased flow of the larger compressor wheel to a resized housing. Something that cannot be done without compromise on a machined cast OEM housing.
Don't get me wrong, we have enjoyed astounding results out of machined out standard cast housings with unmodified turbines.. But as time and development has progressed, we have moved forward and produced better results.
Champion also offers the Billet compressor housing which matches the increased flow of the larger compressor wheel to a resized housing. Something that cannot be done without compromise on a machined cast OEM housing.
Don't get me wrong, we have enjoyed astounding results out of machined out standard cast housings with unmodified turbines.. But as time and development has progressed, we have moved forward and produced better results.
#37
08-24-2010, 05:30 AM
My priority would be reduced lag over ultimate power. I'm guessing the larger IC's while ultimately necessary for best power gains, slightly increase lag.
Anyone care to comment on overall drive-ability with these mods?
Thanks, Bob
Anyone care to comment on overall drive-ability with these mods?
Thanks, Bob
#38
08-24-2010, 07:23 AM
I have Champion Gen 1 VTG turbo which do not have the clipped turbine.
With Protomotive tune the lag is reduced from OEM VTG turbo, boost comes on
earlier/stronger in RPM range.
With Protomotive tune the lag is reduced from OEM VTG turbo, boost comes on
earlier/stronger in RPM range.
#39
08-24-2010, 10:51 AM
Former Vendor
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Age: 52
Posts: 67
Rep Power: 0
What you have right there is a lot of value for your money. We have successfully delivered many of these conversions, and the results are serious !!
#40
08-28-2010, 09:40 AM
fastlaw
Champion has a promo on the Gen 1 VTG now for $1300 under the vendors thread.
That is an amazing price these used to be $4500 a year ago other vendors still charge that for them
Champion has a promo on the Gen 1 VTG now for $1300 under the vendors thread.
That is an amazing price these used to be $4500 a year ago other vendors still charge that for them
Last edited by venkatreddytx; 08-28-2010 at 09:43 AM.
#41
08-28-2010, 09:57 AM
this is my office carpet !!!!
On another note, several tuners have billet wheels that have significantly larger inducer/exducer diameters compared to the GT2, producing massive power. However, the A/R (area/radius) ratio is still limited on the turbine housing side. This is still the rate limiting step to big power on the VTGs.
Turbine housing 997TT v GT2
The A/R on the turbine housing has a greater impact on velocity and flow of exhaust gases (ie a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel, resulting in a quicker boost rise but with a reduced flow capacity...conversely, bigger A/R = more flow at the expense of more lag and larger boost threshold.)
I do not believe GT2 turbine housing and wheels are available separately. If they were, you could assemble (for a significantly lower cost) a larger turbine housing - hence improved A/R ratio on the turbine side - and produce a turbocharger that had significantly greater flow capacity...which is why the GT2 turbos are still very desirable for big power...but it comes at a financial price as well as greater lag.
So to the OP...it's not a simple matter comparing inducer/exducers. Most tuners here are changing the compressor wheel (altering the inducer and exducer sizes) and clipping the turbine wheel to improve outflow to the exhaust. By keeping the turbine housing smaller (ie 997TT size) you improve boost response but limit maximum flow. If you modify a GT2 turbo (which has a larger turbine housing) you potentially get improved flow and power, but may sacrifice boost response.
Turbine housing 997TT v GT2
The A/R on the turbine housing has a greater impact on velocity and flow of exhaust gases (ie a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel, resulting in a quicker boost rise but with a reduced flow capacity...conversely, bigger A/R = more flow at the expense of more lag and larger boost threshold.)
I do not believe GT2 turbine housing and wheels are available separately. If they were, you could assemble (for a significantly lower cost) a larger turbine housing - hence improved A/R ratio on the turbine side - and produce a turbocharger that had significantly greater flow capacity...which is why the GT2 turbos are still very desirable for big power...but it comes at a financial price as well as greater lag.
So to the OP...it's not a simple matter comparing inducer/exducers. Most tuners here are changing the compressor wheel (altering the inducer and exducer sizes) and clipping the turbine wheel to improve outflow to the exhaust. By keeping the turbine housing smaller (ie 997TT size) you improve boost response but limit maximum flow. If you modify a GT2 turbo (which has a larger turbine housing) you potentially get improved flow and power, but may sacrifice boost response.
#43
08-28-2010, 01:37 PM
so who can deliver best VTG turbo modification, any datas?
here from unknown german tuner:
- "Extended Tip" Verdichterrad
- neuste Verdichterradgeometrie
- Verdichtereintritt (Gehäuse): 49,2mm
- Verdichterradeintritt (Rad): 48,5mm
- Verdichteraustritt (Rad): 63mm
Das Verdichterrad ist eine Sonderanfertigung, einzigartig in ihrer Form, Geometrie und Größe.
- 5-Achs CNC geänderte Verdichtergehäuse & Rückwände um die optimale Strömung im Ansaug- und Austrittsbereich zu erzielen
- Spaltmaßoptimierung
- verstärktes Axiallager
- Einzelteil- Feinwuchtung, sowie Rumpfgruppen- Feinwuchtung
here from unknown german tuner:
- "Extended Tip" Verdichterrad
- neuste Verdichterradgeometrie
- Verdichtereintritt (Gehäuse): 49,2mm
- Verdichterradeintritt (Rad): 48,5mm
- Verdichteraustritt (Rad): 63mm
Das Verdichterrad ist eine Sonderanfertigung, einzigartig in ihrer Form, Geometrie und Größe.
- 5-Achs CNC geänderte Verdichtergehäuse & Rückwände um die optimale Strömung im Ansaug- und Austrittsbereich zu erzielen
- Spaltmaßoptimierung
- verstärktes Axiallager
- Einzelteil- Feinwuchtung, sowie Rumpfgruppen- Feinwuchtung
#44
08-28-2010, 02:56 PM
Hi Louis, what is vane frequency range please? TIA.
BTW I always enjoy reading your posts for the information provided.
BTW I always enjoy reading your posts for the information provided.
There are other advantages to clipping the turbine. With VTG, you can very quickly run out of vane frequency range. When you make big power, but want the VTG to still reliably control boost and follow the requested target, clipping is a way to achieve this. There are other VTG mods that are done to the turbine, but as others have pointed out, we as well as other tuners keep this information propriatary.
Champion also offers the Billet compressor housing which matches the increased flow of the larger compressor wheel to a resized housing. Something that cannot be done without compromise on a machined cast OEM housing.
Don't get me wrong, we have enjoyed astounding results out of machined out standard cast housings with unmodified turbines.. But as time and development has progressed, we have moved forward and produced better results.
Champion also offers the Billet compressor housing which matches the increased flow of the larger compressor wheel to a resized housing. Something that cannot be done without compromise on a machined cast OEM housing.
Don't get me wrong, we have enjoyed astounding results out of machined out standard cast housings with unmodified turbines.. But as time and development has progressed, we have moved forward and produced better results.