997 or GT2 insight
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From: Palos Verdes
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I have a Bilstein modded 997.1 Turbo, and have driven GT3, GT2, and 997.2 Turbo PDK, some of these to the very limits so I think I have some idea how they behave. As much as I love my baby Turbo like there is no tomorrow and have no plan to switch, I will have to say that if this is not a daily driver, hands down GT2 over ANY generation Turbo, or Turbo S.
Stating the obvious: Driving enjoyment is much more than just speed, it's about handling, steering response, clutch feel, etc., and on these critical aspects, the GT2 just flat KILLS the Turbo. There is a huge difference between the 2 cars, especially if taking to the limits in curves (versus straightline, where the Turbo S will win). This is because it is a lighter car with much more aggressive suspension tuning and much less steering assist.
All the suspension mods in my car are a result of a test drive in a GT2. My Turbo is now much close to the feel of the GT2
, with sharpened steering respone (stock Turbo steering feels like noodle - unacceptable) and less body roll, and that's why I am such a happy camper.
The slight problems with GT2, as you probably have noticed, that make it less friendly as daily driver: stiff suspension, stiff clutch, seats that are near impossible to get out of, especially as you get older or have bad back, and low front spoiler. For a weekend car, these points are mute. The Turbo does have one advantage that's related to 4wd: better acceleration out of corner, and better acceleration from standing stop. It's also probably the safer car for most amateur drivers.
Be very careful about PDK!! Fast? Yes. Very very fast? Yes. But fun? Very much a debate. A few drivers with PDK have mentioned the "involvement" factor -- which IMHO is a real "problem" with PDK, for some people. This is an expensive mistake to make so think twice before getting a PDK car.
Stating the obvious: Driving enjoyment is much more than just speed, it's about handling, steering response, clutch feel, etc., and on these critical aspects, the GT2 just flat KILLS the Turbo. There is a huge difference between the 2 cars, especially if taking to the limits in curves (versus straightline, where the Turbo S will win). This is because it is a lighter car with much more aggressive suspension tuning and much less steering assist.
All the suspension mods in my car are a result of a test drive in a GT2. My Turbo is now much close to the feel of the GT2
, with sharpened steering respone (stock Turbo steering feels like noodle - unacceptable) and less body roll, and that's why I am such a happy camper.The slight problems with GT2, as you probably have noticed, that make it less friendly as daily driver: stiff suspension, stiff clutch, seats that are near impossible to get out of, especially as you get older or have bad back, and low front spoiler. For a weekend car, these points are mute. The Turbo does have one advantage that's related to 4wd: better acceleration out of corner, and better acceleration from standing stop. It's also probably the safer car for most amateur drivers.
Be very careful about PDK!! Fast? Yes. Very very fast? Yes. But fun? Very much a debate. A few drivers with PDK have mentioned the "involvement" factor -- which IMHO is a real "problem" with PDK, for some people. This is an expensive mistake to make so think twice before getting a PDK car.
Last edited by cannga; Oct 22, 2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Thanks again for the very insightful thoughts everyone.
I suppose the biggest factor that remains for me is which drive i would rather have: rear or AWD. coming out of two AWD audis i fear i may make a mistake of going for another in that i am seeking something more interesting to drive- a little wilder even. of course the AWD is nice when the weather is inclement, and it gives a certain confidence in some cornering situations.... but oversteer has to be very, very difficult to achieve, and it certainly changes the steering feel with the power up there as well.
as for the seats, i dont know if its sacrilege but i prefer the adaptive seats as the fixed ones just dont give me the right seating position. not bad, but could be better.
I suppose the biggest factor that remains for me is which drive i would rather have: rear or AWD. coming out of two AWD audis i fear i may make a mistake of going for another in that i am seeking something more interesting to drive- a little wilder even. of course the AWD is nice when the weather is inclement, and it gives a certain confidence in some cornering situations.... but oversteer has to be very, very difficult to achieve, and it certainly changes the steering feel with the power up there as well.
as for the seats, i dont know if its sacrilege but i prefer the adaptive seats as the fixed ones just dont give me the right seating position. not bad, but could be better.
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I have driven the GT2, GT3, 997 TT PDK and manual and I am in the same position as you regarding the choice between TT PDK or the GT2. These are my opinions and which way I am leaning:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o
></o>
<o></o>
GT2:<o></o>
To me it feels like a GT3 on steroids. Everything about it requires the driver to be more involved. Clutch is a little heavier but incredible feel, the shifter feels a bit notchier but a more positive engagement. In breaking however, I think the GT3 does better as it is lighter and ultimately to me it comes down to the weight and suspension set-up (the GT3s have a bit of toe-out geometry in the front and as such have a very responsive turn in). I believe the GT2 has the best balance power and handling. This GT2 will really keep you involved and you should be involved (i.e., in my opinion you can’t drive it like a Lexus or merc, you need to wring its neck)<o></o>
<o></o>
TT Manual:<o></o>
Awesome acceleration but the weight really comes into play around the corners and it is about 500 pounds more than the GT3 and about 250 Lbs or so heavier than the GT2. The suspension set-up is more conservative and to me more under steer is dialed into the suspension which is corrected by the accelerator or turning the steering more and during acceleration out of the corner you are letting the AWD pull you out of the corner (much like you Audi I imagine)s. The GT2 – GT3 push you through the corner – (hope this makes sense). Whereas the GT2 and GT3 steering gets light during cornering the TT is not effected that much. This is another item which really forces you to stay involved. This is mostly to the suspension stiffness where in the GT2 and GT3 I would routinely lift the inside front tire. <o></o>
<o></o>
TT PDK:<o></o>
An incredible car to go red light – to – red light. I have not driven another car which takes off as quick as this one. To me it felt like that the programming was so good that it would just be in the right gear in auto mode around corners. When in manual mode it will hold a gear regardless of revs so you can pretty much keep bouncing it off of the red line. Overall to me I think the novelty will end after a couple of months. The dual clutch is absolutely smooth as in normal driving the only way I could tell that it shifted was by looking at the revs. I know that for me this is the last choice. <o></o>
<o></o>
I believe my second choice will be a lightened, more powerful and modified suspension TT. That to me essentially is the GT2. So personally I am leaning towards the GT2 for these reasons and I think the final deciding factor will be the involvement factor, which the GT2 excels at. <o></o>
<o></o>
Having said all of the above, I am still see-sawing between the two……………Thanks for starting this thread and I hope more people give their comments. <o></o>
<o></o>
Cheers. <o></o>
fficeffice" /><o></o><o
></o>GT2:<o
></o>To me it feels like a GT3 on steroids. Everything about it requires the driver to be more involved. Clutch is a little heavier but incredible feel, the shifter feels a bit notchier but a more positive engagement. In breaking however, I think the GT3 does better as it is lighter and ultimately to me it comes down to the weight and suspension set-up (the GT3s have a bit of toe-out geometry in the front and as such have a very responsive turn in). I believe the GT2 has the best balance power and handling. This GT2 will really keep you involved and you should be involved (i.e., in my opinion you can’t drive it like a Lexus or merc, you need to wring its neck)<o
></o><o
></o>TT Manual:<o
></o>Awesome acceleration but the weight really comes into play around the corners and it is about 500 pounds more than the GT3 and about 250 Lbs or so heavier than the GT2. The suspension set-up is more conservative and to me more under steer is dialed into the suspension which is corrected by the accelerator or turning the steering more and during acceleration out of the corner you are letting the AWD pull you out of the corner (much like you Audi I imagine)s. The GT2 – GT3 push you through the corner – (hope this makes sense). Whereas the GT2 and GT3 steering gets light during cornering the TT is not effected that much. This is another item which really forces you to stay involved. This is mostly to the suspension stiffness where in the GT2 and GT3 I would routinely lift the inside front tire. <o
></o><o
></o>TT PDK:<o
></o>An incredible car to go red light – to – red light. I have not driven another car which takes off as quick as this one. To me it felt like that the programming was so good that it would just be in the right gear in auto mode around corners. When in manual mode it will hold a gear regardless of revs so you can pretty much keep bouncing it off of the red line. Overall to me I think the novelty will end after a couple of months. The dual clutch is absolutely smooth as in normal driving the only way I could tell that it shifted was by looking at the revs. I know that for me this is the last choice. <o
></o><o
></o>I believe my second choice will be a lightened, more powerful and modified suspension TT. That to me essentially is the GT2. So personally I am leaning towards the GT2 for these reasons and I think the final deciding factor will be the involvement factor, which the GT2 excels at. <o
></o><o
></o>Having said all of the above, I am still see-sawing between the two……………Thanks for starting this thread and I hope more people give their comments. <o
></o><o
></o>Cheers. <o
></o>
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 975
From: Southern Cali
Rep Power: 135
I have driven the GT2, GT3, 997 TT PDK and manual and I am in the same position as you regarding the choice between TT PDK or the GT2. These are my opinions and which way I am leaning:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
GT2:<o></o>
To me it feels like a GT3 on steroids. Everything about it requires the driver to be more involved. Clutch is a little heavier but incredible feel, the shifter feels a bit notchier but a more positive engagement. In breaking however, I think the GT3 does better as it is lighter and ultimately to me it comes down to the weight and suspension set-up (the GT3s have a bit of toe-out geometry in the front and as such have a very responsive turn in). I believe the GT2 has the best balance power and handling. This GT2 will really keep you involved and you should be involved (i.e., in my opinion you can’t drive it like a Lexus or merc, you need to wring its neck)<o></o>
<o></o>
TT Manual:<o></o>
Awesome acceleration but the weight really comes into play around the corners and it is about 500 pounds more than the GT3 and about 250 Lbs or so heavier than the GT2. The suspension set-up is more conservative and to me more under steer is dialed into the suspension which is corrected by the accelerator or turning the steering more and during acceleration out of the corner you are letting the AWD pull you out of the corner (much like you Audi I imagine)s. The GT2 – GT3 push you through the corner – (hope this makes sense). Whereas the GT2 and GT3 steering gets light during cornering the TT is not effected that much. This is another item which really forces you to stay involved. This is mostly to the suspension stiffness where in the GT2 and GT3 I would routinely lift the inside front tire. <o></o>
<o></o>
TT PDK:<o></o>
An incredible car to go red light – to – red light. I have not driven another car which takes off as quick as this one. To me it felt like that the programming was so good that it would just be in the right gear in auto mode around corners. When in manual mode it will hold a gear regardless of revs so you can pretty much keep bouncing it off of the red line. Overall to me I think the novelty will end after a couple of months. The dual clutch is absolutely smooth as in normal driving the only way I could tell that it shifted was by looking at the revs. I know that for me this is the last choice. <o></o>
<o></o>
I believe my second choice will be a lightened, more powerful and modified suspension TT. That to me essentially is the GT2. So personally I am leaning towards the GT2 for these reasons and I think the final deciding factor will be the involvement factor, which the GT2 excels at. <o></o>
<o></o>
Having said all of the above, I am still see-sawing between the two……………Thanks for starting this thread and I hope more people give their comments. <o></o>
<o></o>
Cheers. <o></o>
fficeffice" /><o></o><o
></o>GT2:<o
></o>To me it feels like a GT3 on steroids. Everything about it requires the driver to be more involved. Clutch is a little heavier but incredible feel, the shifter feels a bit notchier but a more positive engagement. In breaking however, I think the GT3 does better as it is lighter and ultimately to me it comes down to the weight and suspension set-up (the GT3s have a bit of toe-out geometry in the front and as such have a very responsive turn in). I believe the GT2 has the best balance power and handling. This GT2 will really keep you involved and you should be involved (i.e., in my opinion you can’t drive it like a Lexus or merc, you need to wring its neck)<o
></o><o
></o>TT Manual:<o
></o>Awesome acceleration but the weight really comes into play around the corners and it is about 500 pounds more than the GT3 and about 250 Lbs or so heavier than the GT2. The suspension set-up is more conservative and to me more under steer is dialed into the suspension which is corrected by the accelerator or turning the steering more and during acceleration out of the corner you are letting the AWD pull you out of the corner (much like you Audi I imagine)s. The GT2 – GT3 push you through the corner – (hope this makes sense). Whereas the GT2 and GT3 steering gets light during cornering the TT is not effected that much. This is another item which really forces you to stay involved. This is mostly to the suspension stiffness where in the GT2 and GT3 I would routinely lift the inside front tire. <o
></o><o
></o>TT PDK:<o
></o>An incredible car to go red light – to – red light. I have not driven another car which takes off as quick as this one. To me it felt like that the programming was so good that it would just be in the right gear in auto mode around corners. When in manual mode it will hold a gear regardless of revs so you can pretty much keep bouncing it off of the red line. Overall to me I think the novelty will end after a couple of months. The dual clutch is absolutely smooth as in normal driving the only way I could tell that it shifted was by looking at the revs. I know that for me this is the last choice. <o
></o><o
></o>I believe my second choice will be a lightened, more powerful and modified suspension TT. That to me essentially is the GT2. So personally I am leaning towards the GT2 for these reasons and I think the final deciding factor will be the involvement factor, which the GT2 excels at. <o
></o><o
></o>Having said all of the above, I am still see-sawing between the two……………Thanks for starting this thread and I hope more people give their comments. <o
></o><o
></o>Cheers. <o
></o> 
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Once again, I really appreciate the time you all have taken to share your opinion, insights and experiences.
I'm going to buy a GT2...
If anyone has a line on one that isnt thru the obvious Porsche/Autotrader/Dupont/Ebay routes, I would appreciate the tips.
I look forward to coming back and asking more modding questions and sharing my own experiences.
I'm going to buy a GT2...
If anyone has a line on one that isnt thru the obvious Porsche/Autotrader/Dupont/Ebay routes, I would appreciate the tips.
I look forward to coming back and asking more modding questions and sharing my own experiences.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 970
From: Brooklyn, NY
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Get the turbo, and for the difference between that and the GT2 get a dedicated track car.
It'll be cheaper to run, you'll learn faster, and you won't need to make compromises between a comfortable DD and safe, reliable, track car.
It'll be cheaper to run, you'll learn faster, and you won't need to make compromises between a comfortable DD and safe, reliable, track car.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
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Dan, did you bite the bullet yet? I'm going through the same decision making process and I'm considering the GT2 for good weather and a used Cayenne to avoid the terrorizing hydroplaning I keep hearing about with GT2/MPSCs.
If I get the GT2, you guys should take out life insurance policies on me. I'm probably not skilled enough to be driving a 505 lb-ft RWD car. :/
If I get the GT2, you guys should take out life insurance policies on me. I'm probably not skilled enough to be driving a 505 lb-ft RWD car. :/
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elmel,
yes, i did. black on black gt2, lots of carbon in the interior and yellow accents throughout. Its awesome. unfortunately, i havent really been able to push it yet, but i think i'll be going to the track in about 2 weeks. also just got a passport 9500ci installed. its nice to be in a rear drive car again- each have their pros and cons though. getting some more streetable tires soon as the cups arent so hot for the rain.
i live in SF so you could check it out sometime if you'd like. i know there arent a lot of these running around to see.
thanks again to everyone for their insights and opinions- they were very helpful.
yes, i did. black on black gt2, lots of carbon in the interior and yellow accents throughout. Its awesome. unfortunately, i havent really been able to push it yet, but i think i'll be going to the track in about 2 weeks. also just got a passport 9500ci installed. its nice to be in a rear drive car again- each have their pros and cons though. getting some more streetable tires soon as the cups arent so hot for the rain.
i live in SF so you could check it out sometime if you'd like. i know there arent a lot of these running around to see.
thanks again to everyone for their insights and opinions- they were very helpful.