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Brake pads for street and track use?
Did two track days this weekend (amazing fun) but now my front pads are at 25%.
I need to get replacements but dont know if I should go with stock pads or lets say Pagid (yellow)? The car is mainly a dd, but after seeing GT3's dancing through corners all weekend I am thinking of some track improvements recommended by cannga. |
I personally use Performance Friction pads that I buy from Mark @ OG Racing. I daily drive my turbo and do a minimum of 2 track weekends a month. They work like a charm.
-Sayajin |
Originally Posted by Sayajin
(Post 3940138)
I personally use Performance Friction pads that I buy from Mark @ OG Racing. I daily drive my turbo and do a minimum of 2 track weekends a month. They work like a charm.
-Sayajin |
You probably know all of this but, fwiw, here goes.
All non-oem pads squeal; it's just a matter of degree and how annoying you perceive it to be. I'd rather my car draw attention for something other than sounding like a garbage truck. All track pads are designed to work well at high (track) temperatures. You don't achieve those kinds of temps daily driving on the street so they don't work as well in that environment. Really aggressive pads will do a number on your rotors since they have a higher "bite" and higher co-efficient of friction. Most guys who use their car for a dd and track duty and who want higher performance pads change them at the track. Personally, that seems like a pita to me but to each their own. The oem "big reds" truly are a fine setup. I track my car quite a bit and have put a lot of $$$ into it yet the two race/tune shops I've used both recommended just using oem pads and rotors. I have upgraded to stainless steel brake lines, titanium heat shields and ProSpeed RS683 brake fluid but pads and rotors are stock. If you can feel your ABS system kick in, you don't need better brakes, you need better tires or better technique. If you are relatively new to the track scene, your pads will probably begin to last longer as you become smoother. Most new drivers tend to use their brakes too much and too aggressively but since I have no idea how or where you drive, that may not apply to you. AT the end of the day, brakes, like tires and gasoline, are simply consumables. Once a year I go to Road America, a 4.1 mile road circuit, that has three 150 -160+ mph straights which require heavy braking at the end of them. No brake fade and no drama but I needed to replace the pads after 3 days. That's just the price of having fun! With regard to the GT3's, put your money into suspension improvements, stickier tires a better alignment and get rid of unnecessary weight like your back seats unless someone actually sits in them. And don't forget safety equipment if you're going to be tracking frequently. Have fun! PS Also, when your skill level develops enough, turn off the PSM system while on the track! Every time your car slips or slides a little, it attempts to restore it to the straight line it thinks you should be on by applying some combination of the brakes. That just kills the pads as well as taking a great deal of fun out of the equation. |
^Excellent input Steamboat.
PFC 08's are a great pad, do not require bed-in and can be run down to the backing plate unlike the Pagids. They squeal on the street, don't work well when cold. As you DD the car I would stick with an OEM pad unless you don't mind the impression given by screaching brakes on a 100k car:) |
Originally Posted by Steamboat
(Post 3940179)
You probably know all of this but, fwiw, here goes.
All non-oem pads squeal; it's just a matter of degree and how annoying you perceive it to be. I'd rather my car draw attention for something other than sounding like a garbage truck. All track pads are designed to work well at high (track) temperatures. You don't achieve those kinds of temps daily driving on the street so they don't work as well in that environment. Really aggressive pads will do a number on your rotors since they have a higher "bite" and higher co-efficient of friction. Most guys who use their car for a dd and track duty and who want higher performance pads change them at the track. Personally, that seems like a pita to me but to each their own. The oem "big reds" truly are a fine setup. I track my car quite a bit and have put a lot of $$$ into it yet the two race/tune shops I've used both recommended just using oem pads and rotors. I have upgraded to stainless steel brake lines, titanium heat shields and ProSpeed RS683 brake fluid but pads and rotors are stock. If you can feel your ABS system kick in, you don't need better brakes, you need better tires or better technique. If you are relatively new to the track scene, your pads will probably begin to last longer as you become smoother. Most new drivers tend to use their brakes too much and too aggressively but since I have no idea how or where you drive, that may not apply to you. AT the end of the day, brakes, like tires and gasoline, are simply consumables. Once a year I go to Road America, a 4.1 mile road circuit, that has three 150 -160+ mph straights which require heavy braking at the end of them. No brake fade and no drama but I needed to replace the pads after 3 days. That's just the price of having fun! With regard to the GT3's, put your money into suspension improvements, stickier tires a better alignment and get rid of unnecessary weight like your back seats unless someone actually sits in them. And don't forget safety equipment if you're going to be tracking frequently. Have fun! PS Also, when your skill level develops enough, turn off the PSM system while on the track! Every time your car slips or slides a little, it attempts to restore it to the straight line it thinks you should be on by applying some combination of the brakes. That just kills the pads as well as taking a great deal of fun out of the equation. I'll stick with oem pads, I had some ABS action but I was breaking late due to being totaly star struck watching a 12C in my rear view mirror. Money will defeniately be put on a set of Michelin Cup's first before I get out again. Again thanks for your post! |
Originally Posted by xbox_fan
(Post 3940256)
Thanks for your input!!!
I'll stick with oem pads, I had some ABS action but I was breaking late due to being totaly star struck watching a 12C in my rear view mirror. Money will defeniately be put on a set of Michelin Cup's first before I get out again. Again thanks for your post! |
Originally Posted by Steamboat
(Post 3940179)
You probably know all of this but, fwiw, here goes.
All non-oem pads squeal; it's just a matter of degree and how annoying you perceive it to be. I'd rather my car draw attention for something other than sounding like a garbage truck. All track pads are designed to work well at high (track) temperatures. You don't achieve those kinds of temps daily driving on the street so they don't work as well in that environment. Really aggressive pads will do a number on your rotors since they have a higher "bite" and higher co-efficient of friction. Most guys who use their car for a dd and track duty and who want higher performance pads change them at the track. Personally, that seems like a pita to me but to each their own. The oem "big reds" truly are a fine setup. I track my car quite a bit and have put a lot of $$$ into it yet the two race/tune shops I've used both recommended just using oem pads and rotors. I have upgraded to stainless steel brake lines, titanium heat shields and ProSpeed RS683 brake fluid but pads and rotors are stock. If you can feel your ABS system kick in, you don't need better brakes, you need better tires or better technique. If you are relatively new to the track scene, your pads will probably begin to last longer as you become smoother. Most new drivers tend to use their brakes too much and too aggressively but since I have no idea how or where you drive, that may not apply to you. AT the end of the day, brakes, like tires and gasoline, are simply consumables. Once a year I go to Road America, a 4.1 mile road circuit, that has three 150 -160+ mph straights which require heavy braking at the end of them. No brake fade and no drama but I needed to replace the pads after 3 days. That's just the price of having fun! With regard to the GT3's, put your money into suspension improvements, stickier tires a better alignment and get rid of unnecessary weight like your back seats unless someone actually sits in them. And don't forget safety equipment if you're going to be tracking frequently. Have fun! PS Also, when your skill level develops enough, turn off the PSM system while on the track! Every time your car slips or slides a little, it attempts to restore it to the straight line it thinks you should be on by applying some combination of the brakes. That just kills the pads as well as taking a great deal of fun out of the equation. It's a slippery slope. There could even be a trailer, tow vehicle, and dedicated race car in your future! |
Originally Posted by eurotom
(Post 3940207)
As you DD the car I would stick with an OEM pad unless you don't mind the impression given by screaching brakes on a 100k car:)
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I have pagid yellows and the actually don't squeal that much for me and I use my car for dd a lot. However I do second Steamboat's comment about rotors, my pads are on their 3rd set of OEM rotors. I know, better rotors are in my future.
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Originally Posted by Winnilaker
(Post 3940586)
I have pagid yellows and the actually don't squeal that much for me and I use my car for dd a lot. However I do second Steamboat's comment about rotors, my pads are on their 3rd set of OEM rotors. I know, better rotors are in my future.
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There isn't any streetable pad that also works really well at the track, unless: a) you get very little track time or b) you have a track with very few braking zones c) are just not driving very quickly (e.g. you're new, in which case, track with your street pads until you are driving better).
Even if you are able to use a street pad on the track (I've done it before), you'll be wearing them down very quickly and you still run the *risk* of hitting fade, which will really ruin your confidence and fun. Braking is also more than just 'can I mash the pedal and slow down' - they're a huge consumable cost item and getting longer life out of your pads/rotors is important. Even crappy calipers can work fine on the track, but they can get too hot and burn up dust boots, requiring unnecessarily frequent caliper rebuilds. Not an issue on the Porsche big reds, but the POS calipers that BMW sticks on their M cars with 1 or 2 pistons are more prone to it. There is also nothing like dropping anchor deep into a braking zone with a good set of track pads and having them DELIVER lap after lap. Performance Friction's sprint-oriented compounds (01) are basically the equivalent to the hand of god slowing down your car. There are track pads that you *can* use on the street, just not quite as well as a normal street pad. I've driven plenty on various PF pads on the street over the last 6 years and they work well enough, provided you know you're not going to be getting the same initial bite you would get out of a street pad, though once they are even a tad warm they are really just as good to me. As noted above, your car will sound like a $100k dump truck :) To me it's more of a liability issue than anything, and the fact that you are theoretically prematurely wearing down your rotors. You have to valet your car almost anywhere you go on Miami Beach (yes, even your 997TT, if you can't stomach that don't buy one here) -- I'd rather not have any issues if I see my car is coming back with a busted bumper because the valet expected more bite out of the brakes (just one liability example). Swapping pads is really not that difficult. A little dirty, but not hard ;) |
Originally Posted by djben
(Post 3940790)
There isn't any streetable pad that also works really well at the track, unless: a) you get very little track time or b) you have a track with very few braking zones c) are just not driving very well (e.g. new).
Even if you are able to use a street pad on the track you'll be wearing them down very quickly. There are track pads that you *can* use on the street, just not quite as well as a normal street pad. I've driven plenty on Performance Friction pads (my go-to track pad, been using them for 6 years) on the street and they work well enough, provided you know you're not going to be getting the same initial bite you would get out of a street pad, though once they are even a tad warm they are really just as good. To me it's more of a liability issue than anything, and the fact that you are theoretically prematurely wearing down your rotors. You have to valet your car almost anywhere you go on Miami Beach (yes, even your 997TT, if you can't stomach that don't buy one here) -- I'd rather not have any issues if I see my car is coming back with a busted bumper because the valet expected more bite out of the brakes (just one liability example). I just dont want noise from the brakes, then I rather change pads at the track myself. |
Hawk DTC-60s can be used for both with no problems as all!
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Originally Posted by Steamboat
(Post 3940179)
You probably know all of this but, fwiw, here goes.
All non-oem pads squeal; it's just a matter of degree and how annoying you perceive it to be. I'd rather my car draw attention for something other than sounding like a garbage truck. All track pads are designed to work well at high (track) temperatures. You don't achieve those kinds of temps daily driving on the street so they don't work as well in that environment. Really aggressive pads will do a number on your rotors since they have a higher "bite" and higher co-efficient of friction. Most guys who use their car for a dd and track duty and who want higher performance pads change them at the track. Personally, that seems like a pita to me but to each their own. The oem "big reds" truly are a fine setup. I track my car quite a bit and have put a lot of $$$ into it yet the two race/tune shops I've used both recommended just using oem pads and rotors. I have upgraded to stainless steel brake lines, titanium heat shields and ProSpeed RS683 brake fluid but pads and rotors are stock. If you can feel your ABS system kick in, you don't need better brakes, you need better tires or better technique. If you are relatively new to the track scene, your pads will probably begin to last longer as you become smoother. Most new drivers tend to use their brakes too much and too aggressively but since I have no idea how or where you drive, that may not apply to you. AT the end of the day, brakes, like tires and gasoline, are simply consumables. Once a year I go to Road America, a 4.1 mile road circuit, that has three 150 -160+ mph straights which require heavy braking at the end of them. No brake fade and no drama but I needed to replace the pads after 3 days. That's just the price of having fun! With regard to the GT3's, put your money into suspension improvements, stickier tires a better alignment and get rid of unnecessary weight like your back seats unless someone actually sits in them. And don't forget safety equipment if you're going to be tracking frequently. Have fun! PS Also, when your skill level develops enough, turn off the PSM system while on the track! Every time your car slips or slides a little, it attempts to restore it to the straight line it thinks you should be on by applying some combination of the brakes. That just kills the pads as well as taking a great deal of fun out of the equation. OP, don't mean to interrupt the thread but for those of you who swap pads at the track, how many change guide bolts each time (as per Porsche recommendations)? If not, how many times can we reuse these bolts? I know some guys who have actually switched to studs. |
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