Thoughts on the market of the 997 Turbo and GT cars after Covid ...
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Thoughts on the market of the 997 Turbo and GT cars after Covid ...
Some thoughts regarding the 997 market as I have been watching it for the last several years as are most people in the Porsche community.
997 GT3's, GT2's and Turbos were built during a time when the real estate market in North America went into a death spiral, and a lot of people were financially in over their heads. As a result, the production numbers are relatively low for 997's due to the financial uncertainty of the time. Considering the modestly low production numbers and the fact that these cars were not considered instant classics when originally sold (unlike a GNX or Ford GT) and most were driven, I suspect only a small percentage remain with low mileage, original paint, unmodified, etc. In addition, a lot of people (myself included) have owned air-cooled and water cooled 911 Turbo's. Also, many 997 Turbo owners (like me) sold their 997 Turbo when the 991 Turbo was introduced to get the latest and greatest Porsche. In addition, I, like most, like the 991 Turbo but missed the analog feel and size of the 997.
That said, I believe since a lot of people are migrating back to the 997 gen since the 991 and 992 have grown too large and insulate the driver too much, that the elevated 997 prices are here to stay.
North American/US production numbers below.
Only 1155 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Cabs were made in 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 3132 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Coupes were made in 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 789 non RS GT3's were produced in 2007
Only 128 non RS GT3's were produced in 2008
Only 411 GT3RS were produced in 2007 and 2008 combined
Only 219 GT2's were produced in 2008 and 2009 combined
Interesting comparative production numbers:
1318 991.1 GT3RS and 1462 991.2 GT3RS were built for North America (total 2780 991 GT3RS' produced for the US)
In 2005 and 2006, 3221 Ford GT's were built for North America and 4,038 for the world.
Ferrari built a total of 1311 F40's with 213 coming to the US.
And Buick built over 20,000 Grand Nationals in 1987 alone and those vehicles are trading at a 2 to 3 multiple of original MSRP.
In sum, I doubt 997 prices will retreat to any significant degree except under circumstances in which people who own them can no longer afford it. Instead, I think 997 prices are likely to climb.
997 GT3's, GT2's and Turbos were built during a time when the real estate market in North America went into a death spiral, and a lot of people were financially in over their heads. As a result, the production numbers are relatively low for 997's due to the financial uncertainty of the time. Considering the modestly low production numbers and the fact that these cars were not considered instant classics when originally sold (unlike a GNX or Ford GT) and most were driven, I suspect only a small percentage remain with low mileage, original paint, unmodified, etc. In addition, a lot of people (myself included) have owned air-cooled and water cooled 911 Turbo's. Also, many 997 Turbo owners (like me) sold their 997 Turbo when the 991 Turbo was introduced to get the latest and greatest Porsche. In addition, I, like most, like the 991 Turbo but missed the analog feel and size of the 997.
That said, I believe since a lot of people are migrating back to the 997 gen since the 991 and 992 have grown too large and insulate the driver too much, that the elevated 997 prices are here to stay.
North American/US production numbers below.
Only 1155 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Cabs were made in 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 3132 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Coupes were made in 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 789 non RS GT3's were produced in 2007
Only 128 non RS GT3's were produced in 2008
Only 411 GT3RS were produced in 2007 and 2008 combined
Only 219 GT2's were produced in 2008 and 2009 combined
Interesting comparative production numbers:
1318 991.1 GT3RS and 1462 991.2 GT3RS were built for North America (total 2780 991 GT3RS' produced for the US)
In 2005 and 2006, 3221 Ford GT's were built for North America and 4,038 for the world.
Ferrari built a total of 1311 F40's with 213 coming to the US.
And Buick built over 20,000 Grand Nationals in 1987 alone and those vehicles are trading at a 2 to 3 multiple of original MSRP.
In sum, I doubt 997 prices will retreat to any significant degree except under circumstances in which people who own them can no longer afford it. Instead, I think 997 prices are likely to climb.
Last edited by MrJoshua; May 29, 2021 at 01:21 PM. Reason: mistake
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I personally think the TTS is a future collector piece. That’s what is driving the increased value on these vehicles at higher percentage rates than other makes and years.
The reason I think these cars stand out is that this is the last of small bodied 911’s. They are packed with all the bells and whistles and has the the HP and suspension to make even the most discerning automotive connoisseur feel like they have something very special.
I consider myself lucky to have been able to snag one new back in 2011.
It’s just a very special car.
The reason I think these cars stand out is that this is the last of small bodied 911’s. They are packed with all the bells and whistles and has the the HP and suspension to make even the most discerning automotive connoisseur feel like they have something very special.
I consider myself lucky to have been able to snag one new back in 2011.
It’s just a very special car.
Last edited by JSF721; May 30, 2021 at 10:28 AM.
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I personally think the TTS is a future collector piece.
It is the last of small bodied 911’s that is packed with all the bells and whistles and has the HP and suspension to make even the most discerning automotive connoisseur feel like they have something very special.
I consider myself lucky to have been able to snag one new back in 2011.
It’s just a very special car.
It is the last of small bodied 911’s that is packed with all the bells and whistles and has the HP and suspension to make even the most discerning automotive connoisseur feel like they have something very special.
I consider myself lucky to have been able to snag one new back in 2011.
It’s just a very special car.
Last edited by JSF721; May 31, 2021 at 07:07 PM.
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The cat has been out of the bag on this for awhile now.
996 was the ugly stepchild born of cost cutting measures.
997 was the "come to Jesus" moment for Porsche in getting their act together and in the process getting back to more classic styling and winning many top awards including the very top of the entire auto industry for reliability and owner satisfaction.
Then, VW took over
991s were mass produced in unheard of numbers, were too big, dull, and complex.
992s took this even a step further and are basically a mini Panamera. Its been said they are now a GT car no longer a sports car.
In 20 years, when ICE cars are just for hobbyists and collectors, the most coveted 911s will be air-cooled and 997
996 was the ugly stepchild born of cost cutting measures.
997 was the "come to Jesus" moment for Porsche in getting their act together and in the process getting back to more classic styling and winning many top awards including the very top of the entire auto industry for reliability and owner satisfaction.
Then, VW took over
991s were mass produced in unheard of numbers, were too big, dull, and complex.
992s took this even a step further and are basically a mini Panamera. Its been said they are now a GT car no longer a sports car.
In 20 years, when ICE cars are just for hobbyists and collectors, the most coveted 911s will be air-cooled and 997
Interesting food for thought that i'd have to agree with ,i love my 997tt & while i've had many thoughts of keeping up with the Joneses & getting a new 991 or 992 i'm really glad i held on to my 997tt.The analog feel you mention is real & kind of like a good old Rolex Submariner,just a well designed tool piece of machinery.
Last edited by twturbo; Jun 7, 2021 at 09:38 AM.
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I think Turbos will see some appreciation, especially the nice ones or with great specs, but really it seems like naturally aspirated non-GT models are the 997s seeing the most growth. It's not even shocking anymore to see a GTS or clean C2S go for similar money to a Turbo. I assume it's because all cars are turbocharged now, so getting an NA engine is the new "old school throwback" that you can't find anymore.
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Some thoughts regarding the 997 market as I have been watching it for the last several years as are most people in the Porsche community.
997 GT3's, GT2's and Turbos were built during a time when the real estate market in North America went into a death spiral, and a lot of people were financially in over their heads. As a result, the production numbers are relatively low for 997's due to the financial uncertainty of the time. Considering the modestly low production numbers and the fact that these cars were not considered instant classics when originally sold (unlike a GNX or Ford GT) and most were driven, I suspect only a small percentage remain with low mileage, original paint, unmodified, etc. In addition, a lot of people (myself included) have owned air-cooled and water cooled 911 Turbo's. Also, many 997 Turbo owners (like me) sold their 997 Turbo when the 991 Turbo was introduced to get the latest and greatest Porsche. In addition, I, like most, like the 991 Turbo but missed the analog feel and size of the 997.
That said, I believe since a lot of people are migrating back to the 997 gen since the 991 and 992 have grown too large and insulate the driver too much, that the elevated 997 prices are here to stay.
North American/US production numbers below.
Only 1155 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Cabs were made in 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 3132 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Coupes were made in 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 789 non RS GT3's were produced in 2007
Only 128 non RS GT3's were produced in 2008
Only 411 GT3RS were produced in 2007 and 2008 combined
Only 219 GT2's were produced in 2008 and 2009 combined
Interesting comparative production numbers:
1318 991.1 GT3RS and 1462 991.2 GT3RS were built for North America (total 2780 991 GT3RS' produced for the US)
In 2005 and 2006, 3221 Ford GT's were built for North America and 4,038 for the world.
Ferrari built a total of 1311 F40's with 213 coming to the US.
And Buick built over 20,000 Grand Nationals in 1987 alone and those vehicles are trading at a 2 to 3 multiple of original MSRP.
In sum, I doubt 997 prices will retreat to any significant degree except under circumstances in which people who own them can no longer afford it. Instead, I think 997 prices are likely to climb.
997 GT3's, GT2's and Turbos were built during a time when the real estate market in North America went into a death spiral, and a lot of people were financially in over their heads. As a result, the production numbers are relatively low for 997's due to the financial uncertainty of the time. Considering the modestly low production numbers and the fact that these cars were not considered instant classics when originally sold (unlike a GNX or Ford GT) and most were driven, I suspect only a small percentage remain with low mileage, original paint, unmodified, etc. In addition, a lot of people (myself included) have owned air-cooled and water cooled 911 Turbo's. Also, many 997 Turbo owners (like me) sold their 997 Turbo when the 991 Turbo was introduced to get the latest and greatest Porsche. In addition, I, like most, like the 991 Turbo but missed the analog feel and size of the 997.
That said, I believe since a lot of people are migrating back to the 997 gen since the 991 and 992 have grown too large and insulate the driver too much, that the elevated 997 prices are here to stay.
North American/US production numbers below.
Only 1155 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Cabs were made in 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 3132 6 speed 997.1 Turbo Coupes were made in 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.
Only 789 non RS GT3's were produced in 2007
Only 128 non RS GT3's were produced in 2008
Only 411 GT3RS were produced in 2007 and 2008 combined
Only 219 GT2's were produced in 2008 and 2009 combined
Interesting comparative production numbers:
1318 991.1 GT3RS and 1462 991.2 GT3RS were built for North America (total 2780 991 GT3RS' produced for the US)
In 2005 and 2006, 3221 Ford GT's were built for North America and 4,038 for the world.
Ferrari built a total of 1311 F40's with 213 coming to the US.
And Buick built over 20,000 Grand Nationals in 1987 alone and those vehicles are trading at a 2 to 3 multiple of original MSRP.
In sum, I doubt 997 prices will retreat to any significant degree except under circumstances in which people who own them can no longer afford it. Instead, I think 997 prices are likely to climb.
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I agree with the comments about the 997 vs. the 991/2 models. My father has a 991.1 C2S and it not only looks bigger next to my car but feels much bigger when driving it. It is definitely not as rewarding to drive hard. I really like the PDK and the modern interior but that isn't what I drive a Porsche for. It's for the smile it puts on my face after a long day and the adrenaline rush. I don't get that from the 991. To me the 997.1 manual is the perfect car...it just looks and feels perfect. I didn't buy it as an investment but it is also nice to have a car that will depreciate little if at all if cared for properly.
Last edited by mrmaass; Jul 15, 2021 at 10:08 AM. Reason: added comments
this was from a time ago on rennlist
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...l#post13932863
there used to be official links to the porsche press page but i can't find the official link
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...l#post13932863
there used to be official links to the porsche press page but i can't find the official link
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