Porsche misses the boat
#46
09-09-2006, 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by allanlambo
You are somewhat confused as in most tests so far, the 997TT is getting smoked by the 430 and Gallardo, on track and off.
#47
09-09-2006, 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by allanlambo
You are somewhat confused as in most tests so far, the 997TT is getting smoked by the 430 and Gallardo, on track and off.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...ck/index1.html
#48
09-09-2006, 03:09 AM
Originally Posted by PorscheC4
I dont agree with you here, because there have been tests that show the 997TT dusting the f430 and g. IT IS FASTER than both and is faster around the track. There was one test that was very italian biased that showed otherwise, but all other tests show the 997TT IS THE CAR TO BEAT since it came out hands down. I dunno but i think the 430 in most ways just looks like a 360. most people who dont know cars, think its a 360, i know because everyone i know who isnt into cars, and even some who are have seen them and thik theyre a 360. the 997TT is a great car that still stand today as the benchmark of supercars.
Sorry, I couldn't help it, but I sure hope it does considering it's just the evolution of the same car. The 328 looked just like the 308 as the 997 looks like the 996. Porsche keeps it the same name, but Ferrari always gives it a new number/name just like the 575 is the evolution of the 550 etc. As for which car is faster, almost every magazine test I've seen shows the 430 faster around the track as well as the Lambo. Also, I haven't seen the times for the three of them around the 'ring, but my guess I'd like to see the actual times and the Gallardo is at a disadvantage since they probably tested the 500hp version and not the updated 600hp version. I noticed the 430 was absent from that list on the mototrend link you provided. Good debate though, trust me, I REALLY want Porsche to be faster. I live, breath and sleep Porsche, so I'd be gleeming with pride if the 997TT came out on top but in the tests that I've seen it's not 
It certainly is a much more versatile car than either the F or L cars though.
Last edited by ScottKelly911; 09-09-2006 at 03:22 AM.
#49
09-09-2006, 07:40 AM
OK, we went from how the car looks to what it beats on the track/street and what auto magazines did when it tested. LOOKS is what we were talking about and how some liked the understaded looks and some didnt.
Good night,
Bajo
Good night,
Bajo
#50
09-09-2006, 07:43 AM
Originally Posted by nberry
Like your love for Porsche's, your opinion of Ferrari''s is passe. Starting with the 360 and now the 430 Ferrari's can be used as everyday cars. Would I use my 2006 430 (which has over 5000 miles on it) as an everyday car? NO!
Everyday cars should be comfortable, efficient to drive and roomy. Why would anyone in their right mind drive a high performance sport car to work? The whole point of a sport car was to serve as a diversion from day to day driving tedium. Even Porsche recognized that and produced the Cayenne. Their own board of directors acknowledged that their sport cars are impratical for daily use. Yet, Porschephiles on this board and others point to daily use as the reason for buying a Porsche.
I use my Ferrari as a sanctuary for glorious drivng enjoyment. To use a high perf. sport car as your daily driving reminds me of a quote from Shakespeare "If all the year were playing holidays,/To sport would be as tedious as to work".
Finally I realize not everyone can afford a Ferrari or Lamborghini and Porsche fits that niche nicely. However, at some point Porschephiles must make Porsche account for:
1.50% part sharing between all models (boxster, Cayman, 911's)
2.their drab look alike styling for all models
3. incremental performance unless the buyer is willing to pay an outrageous premium
4. Horrendous depreciation because of over production of look alike cars and expensive options.
5. Little visual separation between cheap and expensive models.
Porsche will continue to be the most proftable car company in the world so long as people buy into the they pablum the sell.
Everyday cars should be comfortable, efficient to drive and roomy. Why would anyone in their right mind drive a high performance sport car to work? The whole point of a sport car was to serve as a diversion from day to day driving tedium. Even Porsche recognized that and produced the Cayenne. Their own board of directors acknowledged that their sport cars are impratical for daily use. Yet, Porschephiles on this board and others point to daily use as the reason for buying a Porsche.
I use my Ferrari as a sanctuary for glorious drivng enjoyment. To use a high perf. sport car as your daily driving reminds me of a quote from Shakespeare "If all the year were playing holidays,/To sport would be as tedious as to work".
Finally I realize not everyone can afford a Ferrari or Lamborghini and Porsche fits that niche nicely. However, at some point Porschephiles must make Porsche account for:
1.50% part sharing between all models (boxster, Cayman, 911's)
2.their drab look alike styling for all models
3. incremental performance unless the buyer is willing to pay an outrageous premium
4. Horrendous depreciation because of over production of look alike cars and expensive options.
5. Little visual separation between cheap and expensive models.
Porsche will continue to be the most proftable car company in the world so long as people buy into the they pablum the sell.
Everyday cars should be "what the driver" of his/her car is looking for. To make a blanket statement such as the one you made may fit the bill for you but just remember not everybody lives/works in the city where driving a Porsche/Lambo/F car would not necessarily make the most sense. I played golf yesterday with two real estate attorneys. Both drive 996 Cabs as their daily driver. I was in "the cheap one".....the CaymanS. So right there is three people that drive a Porsche as their daily driver.
To those that own F cars and Lambos both, you might think that a Boxster or CaymanS is "cheap" compared to the CGT. But those of us that "only" make $250K a year, a $60-70K Porsche isn't cheap.
Not a Porschephile here.....just a car guy.
#51
09-09-2006, 11:23 AM
Originally Posted by allanlambo
I think porsche missed the boat. Right now for 65K you can buy a nice 01 996TT, which to 99.9% of the general public looks exactly like the 997TT. Rather buy a 996TT AND a used Gallardo.
#52
09-09-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by PorscheC4
What about the fact that the 997TT beat the f430 and G around the 'ring'? is that not one of the most heralded tracks in the world? and it not only beats them but pretty handily. not trying to argue, just stating facts. If you didnt know the 997TT ran a 7:40 on stock tires. also, in the one test where the 997TT didnt beat the G or 430, it was because the other two had R compound tires and the 997TT only had stock tires.
Also, the G tested at the ring was an 04. We will see what an 07 G runs at the Ring, with apporx 50hp more, shorter gears, R compound tires, and carbon ceramic brakes.
And lastly, in every compro with a G or 430, they have choosen one of the latter over the 997TT. But like I said, the 997Tt is a nice car, we saw one last night, and my wife asked how I could tell it was a new one since to her it looked exactly the same. For me, smart money is a pistine 996TT with a few mods for 1/2 the cost of the 997TT.
#53
09-09-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by ScottKelly911
The 430 looks like the 360? Sorry, I couldn't help it, but I sure hope it does considering it's just the evolution of the same car. The 328 looked just like the 308 as the 997 looks like the 996. Porsche keeps it the same name, but Ferrari always gives it a new number/name just like the 575 is the evolution of the 550 etc. As for which car is faster, almost every magazine test I've seen shows the 430 faster around the track as well as the Lambo. Also, I haven't seen the times for the three of them around the 'ring, but my guess I'd like to see the actual times and the Gallardo is at a disadvantage since they probably tested the 500hp version and not the updated 600hp version. I noticed the 430 was absent from that list on the mototrend link you provided. Good debate though, trust me, I REALLY want Porsche to be faster. I live, breath and sleep Porsche, so I'd be gleeming with pride if the 997TT came out on top but in the tests that I've seen it's not It certainly is a much more versatile car than either the F or L cars though.
Sorry, I couldn't help it, but I sure hope it does considering it's just the evolution of the same car. The 328 looked just like the 308 as the 997 looks like the 996. Porsche keeps it the same name, but Ferrari always gives it a new number/name just like the 575 is the evolution of the 550 etc. As for which car is faster, almost every magazine test I've seen shows the 430 faster around the track as well as the Lambo. Also, I haven't seen the times for the three of them around the 'ring, but my guess I'd like to see the actual times and the Gallardo is at a disadvantage since they probably tested the 500hp version and not the updated 600hp version. I noticed the 430 was absent from that list on the mototrend link you provided. Good debate though, trust me, I REALLY want Porsche to be faster. I live, breath and sleep Porsche, so I'd be gleeming with pride if the 997TT came out on top but in the tests that I've seen it's not It certainly is a much more versatile car than either the F or L cars though.
#54
09-09-2006, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by allanlambo
Has the 997TT been tested by Sport Auto yet?
Also, the G tested at the ring was an 04. We will see what an 07 G runs at the Ring, with apporx 50hp more, shorter gears, R compound tires, and carbon ceramic brakes.
And lastly, in every compro with a G or 430, they have choosen one of the latter over the 997TT. But like I said, the 997Tt is a nice car, we saw one last night, and my wife asked how I could tell it was a new one since to her it looked exactly the same. For me, smart money is a pistine 996TT with a few mods for 1/2 the cost of the 997TT.
Also, the G tested at the ring was an 04. We will see what an 07 G runs at the Ring, with apporx 50hp more, shorter gears, R compound tires, and carbon ceramic brakes.
And lastly, in every compro with a G or 430, they have choosen one of the latter over the 997TT. But like I said, the 997Tt is a nice car, we saw one last night, and my wife asked how I could tell it was a new one since to her it looked exactly the same. For me, smart money is a pistine 996TT with a few mods for 1/2 the cost of the 997TT.
See though, the 997TT ran 7:40 on stock tires, r compound tires can cut many seconds off of lap times, that why in the one test DONE IN italy the 430 and g had r compounds, that was the only reason they were faster. Put equal tires on all three and my moneys on on the 997TT hands down.
#55
09-09-2006, 01:33 PM
Now, these arent all one kind of stat but the sake of discussion going to post to show where the 997TT stands.
AUTOBILD- 0-100-0, 997TT takes the #1 spot. G-#3, 430-#5
I think this is EXCELLENCE, not sure tho.
Gallardo:
0-100km/h: 3.9-4.2 seconds
0-160km/h: 8.4-9 seconds
0-200km/h: ~ 13 seconds
0-240km/h:~21 seconds
F430:
0-100km/h: 3.6 (4 without LC) seconds
0-160km/h:8.2 seconds (9 without LC) seconds
0-200km/h: ~12-13 seconds (with or without LC) seconds
0-240km/h 18.4 (22 without LC) seconds
911 Turbo:
0-100km/h: 3.2-3.7 seconds
0-160km/h: 8 seconds
0-200km/h: ~12 seconds
0-240km/h:~ 19 seconds
This shows the 997TT has a CLEAR advantage over the G by 2 seconds to 124 mph, and the 430 is slightly faster with LC and without just gets dusted.
Then the 7:40 at the ring which I HIGHLY doubt will be challenged by the 430 or even the new 06 G. The old G ran 7:52, i very highly doubt 50 hp and shorter gears are going to give it 12 seconds. Id prob guess it will run about 7:46. as for the real test we will see. I thinks it very funny that the 430 has not been officially released, and i think its because it cannot keep up with the almighty 997TT. the 360 is pitiful around the ring for the car everyone says it is. it ran an 8:09, now thats a joke for that car that everyone says handles like a dream, yea right! I bet you the new 997TT will break into the 7:3X's. nothing but the CGT is beating that.
AUTOBILD- 0-100-0, 997TT takes the #1 spot. G-#3, 430-#5
I think this is EXCELLENCE, not sure tho.
Gallardo:
0-100km/h: 3.9-4.2 seconds
0-160km/h: 8.4-9 seconds
0-200km/h: ~ 13 seconds
0-240km/h:~21 seconds
F430:
0-100km/h: 3.6 (4 without LC) seconds
0-160km/h:8.2 seconds (9 without LC) seconds
0-200km/h: ~12-13 seconds (with or without LC) seconds
0-240km/h 18.4 (22 without LC) seconds
911 Turbo:
0-100km/h: 3.2-3.7 seconds
0-160km/h: 8 seconds
0-200km/h: ~12 seconds
0-240km/h:~ 19 seconds
This shows the 997TT has a CLEAR advantage over the G by 2 seconds to 124 mph, and the 430 is slightly faster with LC and without just gets dusted.
Then the 7:40 at the ring which I HIGHLY doubt will be challenged by the 430 or even the new 06 G. The old G ran 7:52, i very highly doubt 50 hp and shorter gears are going to give it 12 seconds. Id prob guess it will run about 7:46. as for the real test we will see. I thinks it very funny that the 430 has not been officially released, and i think its because it cannot keep up with the almighty 997TT. the 360 is pitiful around the ring for the car everyone says it is. it ran an 8:09, now thats a joke for that car that everyone says handles like a dream, yea right! I bet you the new 997TT will break into the 7:3X's. nothing but the CGT is beating that.
#56
09-09-2006, 02:32 PM
All i have to say is, my friend called me to stop by last night, and what did i walk in on in the garage, a brand new 06 F430 Red on Tan! My jaw just hit the floor, i mean up close in person, not at a show or dealer i really got to enjoy what the car was all about, started it and the sound my goodness, i have to say that car is absolutely amazing/breathtaking.. Im a Porsche driver at heart, but beside's the CGT no other Porsche capture's your soul like these other exotic's 
#57
09-09-2006, 06:24 PM
Back to the point
Don't get me wrong, I want to love the 997TT too. I spent months trying to convince myself I loved the way it looked. Performance is not the issue, it has that hands down. The problem is clear in this picture; which car is not in the 21st century? Yes retro is in, but not in supercars. Ask yourself , which car would you want to park in your driveway and detail out week after week. How many of us dated the plain girlfriend of the hot chick? How many of us married the average looking girl who was great at sports? In todays world you must have performance and looks. If porsche doesn't realize this soon, they too will be assimilated by Ford.........resistance is futile.
#58
09-09-2006, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by TonicwaterTommy
In todays world you must have performance and looks.
#59
09-09-2006, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by TonicwaterTommy
Don't get me wrong, I want to love the 997TT too. I spent months trying to convince myself I loved the way it looked. Performance is not the issue, it has that hands down. The problem is clear in this picture; which car is not in the 21st century? Yes retro is in, but not in supercars. Ask yourself , which car would you want to park in your driveway and detail out week after week. How many of us dated the plain girlfriend of the hot chick? How many of us married the average looking girl who was great at sports? In todays world you must have performance and looks. If porsche doesn't realize this soon, they too will be assimilated by Ford.........resistance is futile.
#60
09-09-2006, 06:50 PM
Don't hate!
I'm on your side. I just want to see more diversity from the porsche nameplate. In fact I love the way the CGT looks , hell of a car...just can't afford it! awsome though!