Let me clarify my original statement:

Naturally aspirated intakes are more SENSITIVE to tuning deviation than forced inducted intakes.

For example, what a lot of people do not understand is that there is a lot more reverse pressure wave action in a naturally aspirated intake, since it is not under pressure from the turbo boost.

Therefore, if an intake were "tuned" to take advantage of these pressure waves, removing or altering a component that was part of this design can disrupt the benefits of this resonance tuning.

Forced inducted intakes on the otherhand are more crude in function by the fact that most airflow is unidirectional, and generally the freer path you can make for the air, the better the results (new GT2 manifold excepted!).

I hope that clarifies my statement.

 

Guess the old butt dyno wasn't too far off after all....!!!

I for one agree with Todd and everyone else that the guys at RSS were very helpful when I encountered 'problems' and I also have to admit that I thought the plenum would give results despite my own reservations. I'm certain that IPD/RSS were/are selling their product in good faith and I don't believe for a moment they were ever trying to deceive anyone.

That said, the product didn't work for me and if AWE's results are to be believed, then I was only experiencing the same outcome from installing the part that they have. One thing I thought I felt was an increase between 5000 and 6000rpm but this was probably the difference between the loss just below that and the engine coming back on song.

I'm just genuinely sorry that the outcome of these tests is as it is.

 

Wow! Very informative thread here. Thanks to all who participated, posted, and shared. I love this site

 

+1

I was an interested bystander - mostly because I found it hard to believe that there *is* a free lunch.

Two lessons learned for some - the *** dyno is incredibly inaccurate and the placebo effect is real.

 

I will not say "I told you so." I wish the part worked. Porsche spends millions on R&D. I can't see a bolt on part netting 20 to 30 hp. Thanks AWE for all the work.

 

+1, I think that this is the best Porsche Site that I have found

 

threads like this are what makes this the best car forum! Thanks to Todd at A.W.E. and dduncan for hopefully settling this debate once and for all. I will not be adding this mod to my car. I was hoping the results would be better and I was ready to get it if there was any decent gain. Gpjli please try to have more respect for the members of this community.

 

Greetings 6 Speeders,

First of all, everyone here at RSS would also like to extend our appreciation and gratitude to all the parties involved, especially Todd at AWE who has been very diplomatic throughout this entire IPD plenum evaluation process. I know AWE is a very well respected tuner when it comes to Volkswagen, Audi and Porsches and have a very loyal customer base. I’m sure all the dyno procedures and protocols were conducted to the nine and were not purposefully manipulated to put the IPD plenum in a bad light.

Although AWE and RSS are technically competitors I’d like to think we share a common mutual respect for each other and enjoy a friendly relationship. That being said, I can only say, “Something is definitely wrong” here. We thoroughly test every plenum design before we commit to full manufacturing production runs. Each and every dyno result posted by RSS was also conducted under the strictest dyno guidelines.

The bottom line is that the plenum did not yield the greatest results and to that I say, send it back. We stand by every IPD plenum. We sell over 100 plenums every month, all with 100% money back guarantee, and to date we have received only 1 plenum return. That means we have a qualified 99.9% customer satisfaction rating. We even sale IPD plenums to German Tuner shops in Europe who have tested and endorse the plenum. So many 6 Speeders (many of which were skeptical non believers to begin with) have also substantiated and confirmed the horsepower and torque gains received from installing an IPD plenum.

Again, we’re not saying any of the members or companies involved here performed incorrect installs or conducted bogus dyno results. We are simply saying that “Something is definitely NOT right here”. So we asked one of our customers to take his “bone stock” 997S and perform the exact same test. The dyno results will be posted on Monday (on a new thread).

Thanks again to everyone involved, especially all the customers who have shared their positive experience with their IPD plenums.

Enjoy the weekend,
Greg

 

I was hoping for a response from RSS to factor into the current dilemma. Life is nothing but interesting at times. Where could you get more drama for a mere $ 850 price of admission. Seriously, though, it would pain me to have to put that ugly piece of plastic back in. Hmmm.... Gerry

 

Greg, you and I have spoken in the last few months, and I truely feel that you are an honest business person and know that you have worked hard to build your companies reputation.

I look forward to your test results and hope that the results are favourable for your product.

If any people have questions about this product call Greg, he is a good guy.

Ed

 

Great thread. I'd like to pitch in some comments from my past experience in tuning naturally aspirated cars. I used to be a rabid E36 M3 enthusiast. I had a 97 M3 with the 3.2l obd II motor which put out about 210-215 rwhp (240 flywheel hp) on a Dynojet. I went thru a long and arduous process of clawing for extra horsepower - my goal was to match the output of the European S52 M3 motor which whose output was 321 flywheel hp or approximately 265 rwhp.

I did everything humanly possibly to the engine in terms of bolt ons - shorty/mid headers, cat delete, cat back low restriction exhaust, fan delete, ltw underdrive pulleys, larger intake manifold, larger intake, larger throttle body, traction control throttle body delete, fuel pressure regulator, larger fuel injectors, Shrick cams, software. I spent $$$$ to gain about 40 rwhp over 3 years.

While I did finally reach my goal, I found that along the way many mods produced no gains on their own or even lost power! The only sure bets were the mods which reduced drag on the motor - fan delete, ltw crank pulleys (ltw flywheel would do the same). Some mods made modest but appreciable gains - exhaust, cat delete, headers. Some mods made no real power difference or even lost power on their own - larger intake manifold, larger throttle body, cold air intake. However, the mods that made no difference on the intake side became beneficial when the volumetric efficiency of the engine was changed thru the cams and fuel system/software tuning.

The key is that these engines are basically just like any flowing system - take a freeway for instance. Opening up an extra lane on a highway for 2 miles is not going to increase overall traffic flow over a 20 mile span. The extra lane needs to cover the whole 20 miles to make a difference in flow. Sometimes opening up an extra lane for a short span actually worsens the traffic flow by introducing more turbulence! In other words intake mods usually make little to no gains on a n/a car unless the rest of the system has been changed/tuned to require additional intake flow.

 

Dear Todd: next time do your homework before you go out to play. Mom. Let me expand on this. The plenum issue had been going on for weeks. There are numerous threads to be searched, savored, digested. If you do a search and read each and every one of those threads and then don't see the irony in your question, I will apologize to you. The fact is that I took the time, after gently chiding you for your seeming lack of initiative, to answer you and update you to the point where you entered the thread. I won't make that mistake again. You were right about one thing: a nerve was struck. it was one of yours my friend. Gerry

 

Apology accepted.

I can say enough thanks to AWE and dduncan for telling the truth. You do not find that too much anymore these days.

Also I;d like to say Ian has one heck of a butt dyno! His findings about the plenum are right on the mark.

 

I have read too many posts to count. On a few different boards and for me this was the first unbiased info I've seen. Just a little something about me, what I do for a living I don't have nerves. And if I did there is nobody that could get to them over the internet. You've been proved wrong! Gpjli

 

[quote=FASTLANE;1803992]Just a little something about me, what I do for a living I don't have nerves.

Dude what do you do for a living? just interested to hear...