I was there, RSS Plenum Dyno Day
#91
06-10-2008, 01:25 PM
I suspect what is really going on Ian is that you will be leaving your plenum on the shelf and mine will stay on my car. You did not like the way your car drove with it in while I did. With all the intellectual ability you bring to bear here I wish you could have gotten the damn part to fit. Then we might at least be sure we are talking about the same thing. It's all good my friend. Cheers, Gerry
#92
07-11-2008, 07:48 PM
Amen to that. This discussion isn't for believers, or disbelievers, it's for those who like facts. Discuss away! =)
Some questions about the RSS Dyno Day, for RSS:
1) Were intake and coolant temperatures monitored and kept equal, during before and after measurements?
2) Was ignition timing monitored for consistency?
3) Were the ECUs allowed sufficient time to adapt timing, w/o resetting, between before/after dyno pulls?
4) Was the dyno load-control recorded, and kept constant? (This goes for AWE's tests too.)
An answer of 'no' to any of those could possibly skew the results towards inaccuracy.
Thanks for taking the time to answer!
Some questions about the RSS Dyno Day, for RSS:
1) Were intake and coolant temperatures monitored and kept equal, during before and after measurements?
2) Was ignition timing monitored for consistency?
3) Were the ECUs allowed sufficient time to adapt timing, w/o resetting, between before/after dyno pulls?
4) Was the dyno load-control recorded, and kept constant? (This goes for AWE's tests too.)
An answer of 'no' to any of those could possibly skew the results towards inaccuracy.
Thanks for taking the time to answer!
#93
07-12-2008, 01:48 PM
Blah,blah,blah blah, blah....... Someone needs to pull a car off the dyno and get it on a drag strip, with the same driver, on the same day (a road course offers to many variables) with the best of 3 runs recorded to validate if there is a measurable increase in performance. Measure 0-60 and Qtr mile performance and see how seat of the pants, versus dyno, versus real world performance vary. True hp should manifest itself with measurable vehicle performance gains. I'll wager that 35 hp increase in the new 09 997S will result in measurably better performance.
#94
07-12-2008, 08:02 PM
Amen to that. This discussion isn't for believers, or disbelievers, it's for those who like facts. Discuss away! =)
Some questions about the RSS Dyno Day, for RSS:
1) Were intake and coolant temperatures monitored and kept equal, during before and after measurements?
2) Was ignition timing monitored for consistency?
3) Were the ECUs allowed sufficient time to adapt timing, w/o resetting, between before/after dyno pulls?
4) Was the dyno load-control recorded, and kept constant? (This goes for AWE's tests too.)
An answer of 'no' to any of those could possibly skew the results towards inaccuracy.
Thanks for taking the time to answer!
Some questions about the RSS Dyno Day, for RSS:
1) Were intake and coolant temperatures monitored and kept equal, during before and after measurements?
2) Was ignition timing monitored for consistency?
3) Were the ECUs allowed sufficient time to adapt timing, w/o resetting, between before/after dyno pulls?
4) Was the dyno load-control recorded, and kept constant? (This goes for AWE's tests too.)
An answer of 'no' to any of those could possibly skew the results towards inaccuracy.
Thanks for taking the time to answer!
#100
07-15-2008, 09:37 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,134
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Denial is a common human reaction when a person is confronted with a negative reality. Whether it is not opening their brokerage statement because they don't want to see the big drop in value or not wanting to hear negative reviews of a popular gimmick, people will always look for a way to avoid facing the facts which may dispprove a position they have taken.
You are seldom going to convince someone who was taken for $1,000 to admit that they did not get what they thought they bought no matter how much proof is provided them. You'll find, for the most part, it is those people who do not wish to continue this discussion.
You are seldom going to convince someone who was taken for $1,000 to admit that they did not get what they thought they bought no matter how much proof is provided them. You'll find, for the most part, it is those people who do not wish to continue this discussion.
Last edited by 1999Porsche911; 07-15-2008 at 09:41 AM.
#101
07-15-2008, 10:57 AM
I have not commented so far but I have read all the threads on this.
Suffice to say there is plenty of data, everyone one of us has to evaluate the data (including making a judgment about it's value) and make up our own minds.
Nuff said!
Suffice to say there is plenty of data, everyone one of us has to evaluate the data (including making a judgment about it's value) and make up our own minds.
Nuff said!
#103
07-16-2008, 09:56 AM
Thanks for the continued support.
Sorry for the long over due contribution to this thread but we've had to get back to our regularly scheduled work routine. As a company and site sponsor it's difficult to balance 6 Speed postings while answering phone calls, e-mails, monitoring manufacturing and distribution, developing new performance products and being on the road all in an effort to provide customers like yourself the absolute best performance products and service available in the industry.
We have answered any and every question ever posed here on 6 Speed, maybe it was on a different thread, but I thought that the proverbial dear horse has received enough of a repeated beating. We delivered the most unprecedented product evaluation in the history of 6 Speed. Members demanded IPD plenum dyno tests, independent dyno tests, board member dyno tests, magazine dyno tests and received all the above. There was NEVER any manipulating of any kind whatsoever with the dyno testing procedures. We never have, never will and never need to play that game. In the meantime here are the latest answers to the questions above.
1) Were intake and coolant temperatures monitored and kept equal, during before and after measurements? No, they were NOT monitored. All dyno pulls were conducted within the same hour with only slight changes in outside temps. Any changes in environment and fluid temps would have only been higher during the IPD round of pulls causing a more detrimental result to the IPD Plenum power gains.
2) Was ignition timing monitored for consistency? No, Engine Timing was NOT monitored. We’re dealing with ECU’s not distributors. Knock sensors trigger if your timing if it is too far advanced and any retarding of the timing would just pull power. Never the less, the timing is set by the ignition map which was not altered between runs. The plenum does NOT affect ignition.
3) Were the ECUs allowed sufficient time to adapt timing, w/o resetting, between before/after dyno pulls? Yes, the ECU’s were given sufficient time to adapt. One car at the Plenum Dyno Day had a code issue so it was cleared by disconnecting the battery. The ECU is NOT affected by disconnecting the battery contrary to what some of the internet engineers believe. It has also been repeatedly substantiated that “resetting the ECU” does NOT add power, Period! Does your (properly functioning) computer at home perform better if you disconnect it?
4) Was the dyno load-control recorded, and kept constant? No it wasn’t! This is an inertia dyno, you cannot manipulate these numbers on a Dyno Jet.
We even had our in-house Porsche engineer who previously worked at Porsche Motorsports discuss at length the reasons why the plenum delivers the additional power that it does. There are professional race teams competing in upper lever Motorsports who have been completely ecstatic with the performance gains and improved lap times provided by the IPD plenum. Both competition and street car in the Porsche motherland of Germany have experienced great success with the plenum. The Cayman S race series in Italy all run the IPD plenums where it received a unanimous motto benne thumbs up. All of the fastest Turbo cars in the Texas Mile had IPD plenums installed. The IPD plenum is the single best performance modification you can possibly install on a late model Porsche. Period!
People always ask, “Why doesn’t Porsche create a similar design Air intake”. The answer is, I don’t know, I don’t work for Porsche. So many people believe that Porsche leaves no stone unturned in their quest for performance. The fact of the matter is that Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world because they are geniuses at developing unbelievable cars that shares common parts from older model applications and they know how to balance the bean counters and engineers. If the engineers were given free reigns to develop the “perfect performance car” they would be bankrupt in no time. They created an uncompromised sports car once before and it lost $100,000 per car, it was called the 959. For those who don’t remember, Porsches books weren’t looking all that stellar during that late 80’s period.
We’ve said it once and we’ll say it again. If you’re one of the now over one thousand IPD plenum customers who have experienced and enjoyed the power gains of the IPD Plenum thank you for your support and appreciation. If you are still on the fence and unsure of the IPD plenum keep in mind that they all come with a 100% money back satisfaction guarantee if you are not completely satisfied. If you are one of those people who so adamantly refute our claims regardless of the numerous dyno tests and board member praises and haven’t tested our product yourself then maybe you should realize that you have nothing to loose by giving it a try. At least then you’ll have a solid leg to stand on. For every 1 complainer we hear, there are 100 happy and satisfied customers. And sales are at an all time high thanks to this on going debate.
Thanks again to all our customers who have continued to support the IPD Plenums
We have answered any and every question ever posed here on 6 Speed, maybe it was on a different thread, but I thought that the proverbial dear horse has received enough of a repeated beating. We delivered the most unprecedented product evaluation in the history of 6 Speed. Members demanded IPD plenum dyno tests, independent dyno tests, board member dyno tests, magazine dyno tests and received all the above. There was NEVER any manipulating of any kind whatsoever with the dyno testing procedures. We never have, never will and never need to play that game. In the meantime here are the latest answers to the questions above.
1) Were intake and coolant temperatures monitored and kept equal, during before and after measurements? No, they were NOT monitored. All dyno pulls were conducted within the same hour with only slight changes in outside temps. Any changes in environment and fluid temps would have only been higher during the IPD round of pulls causing a more detrimental result to the IPD Plenum power gains.
2) Was ignition timing monitored for consistency? No, Engine Timing was NOT monitored. We’re dealing with ECU’s not distributors. Knock sensors trigger if your timing if it is too far advanced and any retarding of the timing would just pull power. Never the less, the timing is set by the ignition map which was not altered between runs. The plenum does NOT affect ignition.
3) Were the ECUs allowed sufficient time to adapt timing, w/o resetting, between before/after dyno pulls? Yes, the ECU’s were given sufficient time to adapt. One car at the Plenum Dyno Day had a code issue so it was cleared by disconnecting the battery. The ECU is NOT affected by disconnecting the battery contrary to what some of the internet engineers believe. It has also been repeatedly substantiated that “resetting the ECU” does NOT add power, Period! Does your (properly functioning) computer at home perform better if you disconnect it?
4) Was the dyno load-control recorded, and kept constant? No it wasn’t! This is an inertia dyno, you cannot manipulate these numbers on a Dyno Jet.
We even had our in-house Porsche engineer who previously worked at Porsche Motorsports discuss at length the reasons why the plenum delivers the additional power that it does. There are professional race teams competing in upper lever Motorsports who have been completely ecstatic with the performance gains and improved lap times provided by the IPD plenum. Both competition and street car in the Porsche motherland of Germany have experienced great success with the plenum. The Cayman S race series in Italy all run the IPD plenums where it received a unanimous motto benne thumbs up. All of the fastest Turbo cars in the Texas Mile had IPD plenums installed. The IPD plenum is the single best performance modification you can possibly install on a late model Porsche. Period!
People always ask, “Why doesn’t Porsche create a similar design Air intake”. The answer is, I don’t know, I don’t work for Porsche. So many people believe that Porsche leaves no stone unturned in their quest for performance. The fact of the matter is that Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world because they are geniuses at developing unbelievable cars that shares common parts from older model applications and they know how to balance the bean counters and engineers. If the engineers were given free reigns to develop the “perfect performance car” they would be bankrupt in no time. They created an uncompromised sports car once before and it lost $100,000 per car, it was called the 959. For those who don’t remember, Porsches books weren’t looking all that stellar during that late 80’s period.
We’ve said it once and we’ll say it again. If you’re one of the now over one thousand IPD plenum customers who have experienced and enjoyed the power gains of the IPD Plenum thank you for your support and appreciation. If you are still on the fence and unsure of the IPD plenum keep in mind that they all come with a 100% money back satisfaction guarantee if you are not completely satisfied. If you are one of those people who so adamantly refute our claims regardless of the numerous dyno tests and board member praises and haven’t tested our product yourself then maybe you should realize that you have nothing to loose by giving it a try. At least then you’ll have a solid leg to stand on. For every 1 complainer we hear, there are 100 happy and satisfied customers. And sales are at an all time high thanks to this on going debate.
Thanks again to all our customers who have continued to support the IPD Plenums
Last edited by RSSGREG; 07-16-2008 at 10:45 AM.
#104
07-16-2008, 10:00 AM
Denial is a common human reaction when a person is confronted with a negative reality. Whether it is not opening their brokerage statement because they don't want to see the big drop in value or not wanting to hear negative reviews of a popular gimmick, people will always look for a way to avoid facing the facts which may dispprove a position they have taken.
You are seldom going to convince someone who was taken for $1,000 to admit that they did not get what they thought they bought no matter how much proof is provided them. You'll find, for the most part, it is those people who do not wish to continue this discussion.
You are seldom going to convince someone who was taken for $1,000 to admit that they did not get what they thought they bought no matter how much proof is provided them. You'll find, for the most part, it is those people who do not wish to continue this discussion.
You are seldom going to convince someone who already has their mind permanently made up no matter how much proof is provided them. You’ll find, for the most part, it is people who do not wish to continue this discussion have already installed their IPD plenums, are enjoying the added power gains and have gotten back to their regularly schedule lives.
Cheers,
Greg
#105
07-16-2008, 10:43 AM
Greg, thanks for answering these questions here. I know they may have been answered somewhere in the plethora of threads on this topic, but I wasn't able to find (the time to find) the answers. Your contribution is appreciated.