ECU Recommendation: APR vs. Softronic
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Has anyone actually done an independent test to verify the gains on a NA car? Seems like a lot of money for a fairly minimal gain. I don't think I've seen any customers on here do a before and after dyno yet. I've had NA cars flashed before and it was barely perceptible. The only thing I noticed is that the thottle travel felt like it was electronically reduced.
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When I went with APR I believe GIAC was the hot set up at the time. In fact my brother who lives in CA put it on his car. He liked it in combination with x-51 headers and a Remus Exhaust.
I went with APR because it a 93 Octane program(and they are local to me) as I remember GIAC had one program which was meant for 91.
So to answer your question you could probably get a little more HP with a program from APR for 93 Octane or from Softronic which adjusts automatically for different.
Does the GIAC give you more mid range and take away the throttle lag? If so that is what the APR does too and from what I have read the softronic does the same.
Bottom line it probably isn't worth the expense to change. IMO and I am not an expert by any means.
I went with APR because it a 93 Octane program(and they are local to me) as I remember GIAC had one program which was meant for 91.
So to answer your question you could probably get a little more HP with a program from APR for 93 Octane or from Softronic which adjusts automatically for different.
Does the GIAC give you more mid range and take away the throttle lag? If so that is what the APR does too and from what I have read the softronic does the same.
Bottom line it probably isn't worth the expense to change. IMO and I am not an expert by any means.
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my understanding is that if you purchase direct from Softronic you get the cable included for the $995 ...others may choose to charge you $150 for the cable
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When I went with APR I believe GIAC was the hot set up at the time. In fact my brother who lives in CA put it on his car. He liked it in combination with x-51 headers and a Remus Exhaust.
I went with APR because it a 93 Octane program(and they are local to me) as I remember GIAC had one program which was meant for 91.
So to answer your question you could probably get a little more HP with a program from APR for 93 Octane or from Softronic which adjusts automatically for different.
Does the GIAC give you more mid range and take away the throttle lag? If so that is what the APR does too and from what I have read the softronic does the same.
Bottom line it probably isn't worth the expense to change. IMO and I am not an expert by any means.
I went with APR because it a 93 Octane program(and they are local to me) as I remember GIAC had one program which was meant for 91.
So to answer your question you could probably get a little more HP with a program from APR for 93 Octane or from Softronic which adjusts automatically for different.
Does the GIAC give you more mid range and take away the throttle lag? If so that is what the APR does too and from what I have read the softronic does the same.
Bottom line it probably isn't worth the expense to change. IMO and I am not an expert by any means.
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I had GIAC on my first 997S, didn't impress me at all. I have had APR on 05 Audi S4 (V8) and that didn't make any noticeable difference either, but on my Allroad with the 2.7TT, it makes a massive difference. I think the fact that I haven't noticed any difference on a NA vehicle is were my reluctance to try the Softtronic Software comes from. Anyone else have the same experience?
You've already heard my opinion. I would ECU turn a FI car in a minute. Big gains. NA's, only if you have money burning a hole in your pocket. What does 10hp really accomplish on 350hp car anyway? We know exhausts for NA cars don't really do jack either, but at least it makes that noise we love
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You've already heard my opinion. I would ECU turn a FI car in a minute. Big gains. NA's, only if you have money burning a hole in your pocket. What does 10hp really accomplish on 350hp car anyway? We know exhausts for NA cars don't really do jack either, but at least it makes that noise we love
And yes the exhaust does sound awesome!
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I was referring to mufflers specifically. They accomplish pretty much nothing on our NA cars other than adding to the "it sounds cool" quotient.
Cats and Headers do offer gains. Mostly in the upper end of the rev range and with a sacrifice to the bottom. I have before and after dyno charts on my car that show significant gains with headers (almost 25rwhp peak and 10rwhp on top) with a loss in lower rpms.
With regards to the x51 and your car, I would not be surprised if dyno'd within 1015 rwhp or so of each other. The extra noise of your full exhaust system sometimes ups what people believe about the car being more responsive. Butt dynos are just not reliable when doing such close comparisons. If you're comparing a Pruis to a Z06 maybe
Cats and Headers do offer gains. Mostly in the upper end of the rev range and with a sacrifice to the bottom. I have before and after dyno charts on my car that show significant gains with headers (almost 25rwhp peak and 10rwhp on top) with a loss in lower rpms.
With regards to the x51 and your car, I would not be surprised if dyno'd within 1015 rwhp or so of each other. The extra noise of your full exhaust system sometimes ups what people believe about the car being more responsive. Butt dynos are just not reliable when doing such close comparisons. If you're comparing a Pruis to a Z06 maybe
Last edited by deputydog95; Aug 7, 2008 at 09:40 AM.
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I was referring to mufflers specifically. They accomplish pretty much nothing on our NA cars other than adding to the "it sounds cool" quotient.
Cats and Headers do offer gains. Mostly in the upper end of the rev range and with a sacrifice to the bottom. I have before and after dyno charts on my car that show significant gains with headers (almost 25rwhp peak and 10rwhp on top) with a loss in lower rpms.
With regards to the x51 and your car, I would not be surprised if dyno'd within 1015 rwhp or so of each other. The extra noise of your full exhaust system sometimes ups what people believe about the car being more responsive. Butt dynos are just not reliable when doing such close comparisons. If you're comparing a Pruis to a Z06 maybe
Cats and Headers do offer gains. Mostly in the upper end of the rev range and with a sacrifice to the bottom. I have before and after dyno charts on my car that show significant gains with headers (almost 25rwhp peak and 10rwhp on top) with a loss in lower rpms.
With regards to the x51 and your car, I would not be surprised if dyno'd within 1015 rwhp or so of each other. The extra noise of your full exhaust system sometimes ups what people believe about the car being more responsive. Butt dynos are just not reliable when doing such close comparisons. If you're comparing a Pruis to a Z06 maybe
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Were running 100 octane for the dyno with the mods or was that someone else?
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Almost 50 rear wheel HP (almost 60 crank HP) from bolt ons and a flash? Could we see your charts and were the dyno runs done progressively or did you install everything at once? Same dyno, same operator, same day?
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I agree that butt dyno's are inaccurate at best of times, however when it is a third party and there is not bias, then I have to put some merit in the observation. Tim and I may swap cars this weekend for a drive and see what each others cars feel like to the other person.
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We were on the track, same driver, can't compare lap times as my suspension is much better and will effect lap time. Just an observation from the instructor that was in them back to back.
