Motul is not the only oil talked about on the LN Engineering website or the only oil sold on the online website. I perfer Motul for several reasons, the information provided on the website about perferrable oil traits (Motul just happens to have them all along with Redline, specific Mobil1 products (not 0w-40), and Sampco... I have two buddies that I race with that both use Motul Xcess with no issues, and the local race shop that I get my pre-race inspections done highly recommends it and puts in all their race cars. Regardless the mutually advantagous relationship Porsche has with Mobil1 is quite a bit different than the relationship LN has with Motul (if there is any relationship besides citing the positive attributes of Motul and many other oils).

And, while we are on the subject of oil, it should also be noted that the 10-15K between oil services is another dramatic marketing ploy by Porsche. How many have heard "Yeah you only have to have the car serviced once a year or every 15k miles. Sure an oil change and quick service inspection is around $200-300 but break that cost down over 12 months and you are really not paying that much for Porsche maintenance." Its a great line and I am sure it keeps many potential buyers warm at night but its all marketing and the used oil test data just doesnt back it up. This tends to be the reason, among others, why Tracked Porsche engines (that generally receive oild changes 5 or 6 times a year) sometimes last longer or appear to be impervious to some of the "normal" failures associated with the M96/7. Again, read the LN article, check out flat 6 innovations, and countless threads on this subject.

You dont have to listen to me though or even read the article, simply look at the data sheet on the back of the oil you purchase, be it Mobil 1 or another oil. Compare those ratings to the other possible oils and see how they match up. I will give you a hint, your not going to like where Mobil 1 0w-40 falls out. In fact Mobil 1 15w-50 ( the poor mans oil ) is a better product and there are many that have used/or use 15w-50 on this forum with great success (I have used it with no issues).

Another way to look at this..... If I sat you down at a table and put two soda's in front of you and said. Both these soda's taste the same and provide about the same amount of enjoyment when injested. One soda is sold by major label and is the perferred soft drink of the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. The other is not supported by a major label and is not endorsed by any celebrity. The first soda, on rare occasions, has been noted to shorten the lifespan of adult males while the other has many attributes that may actually improve the length and quality of your life. Which soda would you choose... would you actually choose the first one simply because a celebrity is paid to endorse it?

Jason

 

I certainly didn't mean to upset you with my post, nor did I mean to suggest that you or anyone else should not use whatever oil you choose. I was merely trying to point out that using the fact that Porsche chooses Mobil 1 as its factory fill is not exclusively due to monetary considerations alone. In fact, just as you point out that LN Engineering does sell other oils, Porsche also has numerous other brands on its recommended oil list.

I have previously visited the LN Engineering site, and read the various tests and articles, and I have no doubt they provide good information. However, it seems that you have decided that Porsche has only chosen to recommend Mobil 1 and use it as factory fill because of financial consideration alone. I simply disagree with that position, and I used the example of LN Engineering recommending and selling Motul as an example of how someone could make a similar claim with no other basis in fact. I do not think LN made any claims on the basis of financial consideration alone, if at all, but then I don't think Porsche selected Mobil 1 on that basis alone either. As I said in an earlier post, automobile manufacturers require their oil suppliers to meet very specific requirements, developed by the automobile manufacturer, before those oils are accepted and approved, just as the auto companies do with tire manufacturers with tire specifications like Porsche's "N" designations.

By the way, we're just talking about oil here, and you said you seem drawn to these discussions. There's no need to insult someone by implying that choosing a brand recommended by the vehicle manufacturer is similar to choosing a soda recommended by the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. I hope you continue to have good luck with your chosen oil, and I apologize for having wasted your time with my posts.

 

Mobil 1 0W-40 has 1000 Phosphorus level and 15W50 has 1200. What is the Phosphorus level of the competing products, Motul or Total?

The issue that I find troubling is that we have the pertinent data from Mobil but nothing specific from Motul or Total. There is a lot of noise about the European oil cos but no real data.

The discussions I have followed center themselves on phosphorus content and low viscosity. Mobil 1 0W4 and 15W50 have pretty good phosphorus content. The discussion about low viscosity is a different story - I would not question Weissach as I think that a thin oil at low temps is needed by to fill the small channels of variocam plus, therefore the need for 0W40. In hot climates (south Florida perhaps, 15W50 is probably OK).

UPDATE: I found a TOTAL website claiming low phosphorus content !?! - SEE HERE. I suspect this characteristics permeates all their motor oil lines... So where's the beef?

P.S. - I do agree that long oil change intervals should be avoided. I do not go beyond 6000 miles or a year, whichever is less.

 

Article in Panorama, January '08, p 79 on oils. Probably should read, as there is a lot of pertinent info. there.

BTW, I'd bet that the Mobil 5w-40 Turbo Diesel Oil would not be a bad alternative either.

 

+1 exactly....

 

I'm still waiting to see actual performance data from Total/Motul. What is their phosphorus content?

 

I see everybody speak about mobil 1 0-40 or 15-50, but why nobody mentions approved mobil oil 5-50? There is a place online that sells it, why not to use 5-50 oil then?

 

Porsche does not say simply: "Use Mobil One". My owner's manual says "Use only engine oils tested and approved by Porsche."

As Adias says, Mobil 0W40 is the version Porsche has tested. In cases where you need higher viscosity, Mobil 5W50 is also approved. Both have twenty percent higher levels of zinc and phosphorous compared to 5W20 or 5W30. The nominal level of zinc is 1000 ppm vs 800 ppm in those other viscosities. Phosphorus is 1100 ppm vs 900 ppm.

 

The 5W50 has the same Zn and Ph content as the 0W40 so no advantage. In that case I prefer the 0W40 for Variocam Plus reasons.

 

No. I'd ask where you got your PhD in Chemistry to decide whether it's as good a school as the guy formulating the oil... uh soda.

I plan to use the grade of Mobil One recommended by Porsche because they designed the engine and developed the oil compatibility specification working with the best petroleum engineers in the business. And I don't have time to go pick up a doctorate in the subject.

 

You're right, but they both have twenty percent more of each than do the grades not approved by Porsche. I agree that 15W50 has another twenty percent on top of that, but I'd worry that I would be pushing past the trade-off that Porsche engineers already made. Not just on viscosity, though cold start characteristics are super-critical with the modern, very tight, tolerances in engine manufacturing, but also because lubrication is only one purpose and only one effect of the oil chosen. As mentioned, you need zinc and phophorus for high performance engines, but if you have too much then the catalytic converters start to suffer. I had to replace them on an NSX once. Ouch. Actually Acura considered it an early failure though it was ten percent past the warranty limit, so they paid the bill, but I had time to cringe. Saving the cats is always a worthy goal unless you're only racing and don't have to keep the car certified for road use.

Incidentally, for those who want to play cynic, let me explain that whatever financial arrangements the front offices make, the engineers in the back room decide what oil compounds are to be approved. The engine people work with the petroleum people to balance all these trade-offs. And if anyone knows oil and high-performance engines, it would be Porsche and their partners. Consider another purpose of oil. What we call the "air-cooled" engines for Porsche never were that to an engineer. This is slightly more true of aircraft engines, but only slightly despite the very high volume of air mass flow they enjoy., The primary cooling fluid in all of them is oil. Air is the secondary fluid to which we move the heat extracted by the oil. Very little of the engine structure is directly cooled by air. This is still true with liquid-cooled engines. Oil is the critical cooling fluid, although the more dense character of liquid coolants will let us cool a few more of the less critical areas directly. We can use pressurized flow through chambers in the block for example, which is impractical with air-cooled engines.

The idea that aftermarket guys can 'fix' the decisions of factory people is... charming I guess, but it's just a creation of the marketing people for those brands. It is certainly true that for a Chevy or Ford engine I modified to race, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to look to aftermarket oils. I'm not using the engine the way it was designed. But I also would use my own expertise to evaluate the compounds for all these issues first. I wouldn't pay much attention to the marketing people.